Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?

[solar_plasma]

Instead of "Do you like precious metals?" or whatever is asked sometimes to check if someone is a bot, everyone should have to read one of the accidents instead. Then followed by the question: "Did you read this thread already? [link]". Not only noobs do well in reading them, also semi's and pro's benefit from remembering those or getting reminded of those from time to time.

 

[jonrms]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Not only has it given me a further insight to the dangers but also a better understanding of extra precautions and further safety gear to have with me. As a retired Paramedic I know all too well how to treat and manage acid burns etc. But as a a mature or newbee at gold refining I am grateful that this site and posts exists. Thank you.

 

[nickvc]

A point to bear in mind is that it’s great to understand the danger of the chemical we are using or even the combination of chemicals but once you start dissolving metals there are further dangers that come with the metal salts themselves, one of the reasons we try to get newbies to read and study is that the dangers multiply very quickly once chemicals, metals, heat and fumes start to come together so understanding the process in advance helps to mitigate those risks. This is such a huge area of chemistry that no one person knows it all we all learn new things all the time so chill and enjoy the learning and studying, it will help keep you healthy and will eventually pay off if you keep recovering and refining precious metals.

 

[jonrms]

A point to bear in mind is that it’s great to understand the danger of the chemical we are using or even the combination of chemicals but once you start dissolving metals there are further dangers that come with the metal salts themselves, one of the reasons we try to get newbies to read and study is that the dangers multiply very quickly once chemicals, metals, heat and fumes start to come together so understanding the process in advance helps to mitigate those risks. This is such a huge area of chemistry that no one person knows it all we all learn new things all the time so chill and enjoy the learning and studying, it will help keep you healthy and will eventually pay off if you keep recovering and refining precious metals.

Nick as a Retired Paramedic. I know the dangers of inhaling toxic gas and chemical burns have on someone. Trust me when I say a few made me ill. You have many dangers. 1 chemical storage. 2 mixing chemicals. 3 adding metals. 4 materials cleaning. 5 waste. 6 fire if smelting your own gold silver etc. So fumes and molten metal

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

I think Nick was referring to the carcinogenic effect of many of the metal salts that we can be dealing with unwittingly. Primarily the platinum sisters. It doesnt take much of its vapor in the air and you are subjecting yourself to a fair bit of danger, that you may not even think is there in the sample being dissolved.

Dissolving the mixed metal in AR (or poorman ar) puts the metal salts in the air, just from the effervescence action of the acid at work.
-while that list you replied with does encompass a fair bit of the occupational safety hazards encountered, the devil truly is in the details with this one..

 

[jonrms]

Noted. This is something I will ensure to take extra precautions of

 

[nickvc]

Hello, It's pretty obvious that most people ask questions on the Internet when they don't understand something and they want to know the answer.
Thank you

The one problem with asking a simple question about recovery and refining is well covered by Frugal, there is never a simple answer due to the complexity of the chemicals and metals we deal with and the interactions of said chemicals and metals and all the dangers inherent with all of them let alone mixing them.

No one here is paid to help and holding someone’s hand all the way through takes a lot of time and even more patience which few members here have the time or patience to do, you want to learn recovery and refining then read and study here on the forum, it’s all here it just takes your time end effort to understand it, get stuck or can’t follow something then ask and if you are doing your part the answers will be forthcoming.

 

[jimdoc]

Hello, It's pretty obvious that most people ask questions on the Internet when they don't understand something and they want to know the answer.
Thank you

The search box can answer your questions, and never complains. Try it.

 

[goldsilverpro]

It's easy to answer a question on how to do something, step by step. However, many (if not most) of the questions involve how to fix something that the person has totally screwed up, usually, either because he listened to some fool on youtube or because when something didn't work, he started dumping in whatever chemicals happened to be laying around the house. Those questions are extremely annoying to me and I rarely answer them. I find that, often, I really could care less whether their problem gets solved or not. I usually tell the person how he should have done it to start with and how to best do it next time.

I've put a little time in thinking about some sort of questionnaire that a person would have to fill out for each question they ask. I have often written up a long answer to what I thought the person wanted or needed, only to find out that, because he was very lax in providing details, my answer had nothing to do with his true situation. Also, getting required info from some people is like pulling teeth and sometimes it takes several posts before enough info is gathered to answer the question. When consulting by the hour, this was often a problem. Sometimes, it could take 15-30 minutes just to squeeze out what info I needed. I would end up giving the person free added time because I felt bad about it. This time, I'm telling the people to provide info in great detail by email before I take them on. I will study their info at no cost, but when we start the clock, there will be little or no fudging. I am working on a questionnaire for the consulting.

 

[ARMCO]

It's easy to answer a question on how to do something, step by step. However, many (if not most) of the questions involve how to fix something that the person has totally screwed up, usually, either because he listened to some fool on youtube or because when something didn't work, he started dumping in whatever chemicals happened to be laying around the house. Those questions are extremely annoying to me and I rarely answer them. I find that, often, I really could care less whether their problem gets solved or not. I usually tell the person how he should have done it to start with and how to best do it next time.

I've put a little time in thinking about some sort of questionnaire that a person would have to fill out for each question they ask. I have often written up a long answer to what I thought the person wanted or needed, only to find out that, because he was very lax in providing details, my answer had nothing to do with his true situation. Also, getting required info from some people is like pulling teeth and sometimes it takes several posts before enough info is gathered to answer the question. When consulting by the hour, this was often a problem. Sometimes, it could take 15-30 minutes just to squeeze out what info I needed. I would end up giving the person free added time because I felt bad about it. This time, I'm telling the people to provide info in great detail by email before I take them on. I will study their info at no cost, but when we start the clock, there will be little or no fudging. I am working on a questionnaire for the consulting.

I want to thank you for your diligent work. I mean that. I have been serious about all this, but I don't think serious enough when I do a little introspection. So thank you for the "booster shot." It was not wasted on me.

 

[jhop1994]

https://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6638#p59284
Hi I took an interest in this post due to the nature of it’s name an potential quote. Has the original posting been deleted?

 

[g_axelsson]

https://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6638#p59284
Hi I took an interest in this post due to the nature of it’s name an potential quote. Has the original posting been deleted?

Do you mean Separation and Purification Au,Pt,Pd,Ag,Rh,Os,Ir,Ru

The URL is misformed, did you find it in an old post? The forum is old and the software have evolved and sometimes things break. We try to fix it when we find errors.

Welcome to the forum!

Göran

 

[jhop1994]

..and Ruthenium Tetroxide detonates at 109 Deg. C. I was near a fume hood when some Ruthenium Tetroxide we were distilling detonated. It wrecked the hood and contaminated the lab. It was a very expensive accident. That was my first introduction to Ruthenium poisoning.

Separation and Purification Au,Pt,Pd,Ag,Rh,Os,Ir,Ru

https://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6638#p59284
Hi I took an interest in this post due to the nature of it’s name an potential quote. Has the original posting been deleted?

Do you mean Separation and Purification Au,Pt,Pd,Ag,Rh,Os,Ir,Ru

The URL is misformed, did you find it in an old post? The forum is old and the software have evolved and sometimes things break. We try to fix it when we find errors.

Welcome to the forum!

Göran

Thank you for the speedy response Goran.
This was exactly what I was looking for.
This faulty link was found among the many quotes about why a simple question, never has a simple answer in refinement.

Thank your for the welcome I hope to one day be a nice asset to the forum.

Jason

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I've edited the opening post to fix the link. Thank you both.

Dave

 

[CattMurry]

Many new members are frustrated when they first join this forum. They may have experience on other internet forums where it is common for members to ask simple questions and get quick answers. They join this forum in hopes of getting similar responses to their questions about refining.

These are some questions that have been asked:

• "Here is my plea for help. I kept all the liquid, but how do I get the gold back?"
• "I just have some CPUs I want to refine. Why won't someone just give me the best process to use?"
• "How much 60% nitric per Oz of sterling silver.I cheched the site and saw no math on this.Just a simple answer would be great."
• "I am not here with great expectations, just looking for a simple answer to a simple solution."
• "How do I mix nitric acid with hydrocloric acid without killing myself or turning the house into a gas chamber?"
• "why cant some just answer the question."

If you're new to the forum, you may feel like some of the members I've quoted above. You just have a little gold or silver you'd like to refine. You don't need someone to write a whole book for you and you don't want to spend years reading through the forum. You just need a quick outline of the best process to use for your material, like they show on YouTube.

The reason no one here wants to give these quick answers is simple. Every process used in recovering and refining precious metals is dangerous. Following are a few accounts written by members of this forum. Following each quote is a link to the post they've come from. These are their real life experiences.


Mandatory reading material for new Help Needed Posters


WARNING!!


It's Time to go legit


Refining gold from connector pins


Thanks Harold




Metal Fume Fever


Separation and Purification Au,Pt,Pd,Ag,Rh,Os,Ir,Ru


BFRC precautions when using AR


Nitrogen Dioxide MSDS


HCl/Cl Leach of Honeycombs and Beads PHOTOS


Stannous chloride Colors?


I hope these accounts will help you to understand some of the hazards involved in what we discuss on this forum. I sympathize with those who just want a quick answer to a simple question. As you study, you'll find that those who have taken the time to educate themselves will, indeed, get quick answers to quick questions. But no one on this forum wants to be responsible for helping a new member hurt themselves or others around them. Please, take your time and follow the advice of those who've come before you. Here's a good place to get started: Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum.

Dave

Edited to add a link to a post made by kadriver: Gold Miner Dies Among Chemicals.

I wish the mods wrote me books like sheeeeeet. They all just give too generic of answers making learning impossible. They also mix vocabulary, then don't use the proper vocab right after in "generalized" sayings. I can't learn only having partial terminology used here, and there. Many users just let you know how much vocabulary they have, and actually get to no points.

I. WANT. BOOKS. DAMMIT! I WANT TO NOT SPEND 150k YEARLY FOR COLLEGE! lmfao

I will add that I am oblivious many times, but I circle back to apologies for being dumb, and warn that I am a potato. My point is that I'd rather be baffled by very specific outlined, and correct terminology with answers than condescending tones plus generalizations without examples just saying "there are many ways", or something similar over, and over with 0 resolve.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I wish the mods wrote me books like sheeeeeet. They all just give too generic of answers making learning impossible. They also mix vocabulary, then don't use the proper vocab right after in "generalized" sayings. I can't learn only having partial terminology used here, and there. Many users just let you know how much vocabulary they have, and actually get to no points.

I. WANT. BOOKS. DAMMIT! I WANT TO NOT SPEND 150k YEARLY FOR COLLEGE! lmfao

I will add that I am oblivious many times, but I circle back to apologies for being dumb, and warn that I am a potato. My point is that I'd rather be baffled by very specific outlined, and correct terminology with answers than condescending tones plus generalizations without examples just saying "there are many ways", or something similar over, and over with 0 resolve.

You know Catt.
Many times in refining, the only simple answer is that there are no simple answer.

As long as you are refining the same thing with the same procedure every time, one can put down a clear answer.... or maybe not.

Sometimes the temperate or purity of the chemical change. Maybe you had a short lapse of memory or have specially tempting steak for dinner, who knows.

Things change, and we all have to learn to deal with it.
Thus the general base chemistry is what we have to learn, then we need to adapt that to the conditions at hand, this round of refining.

Most of the time there are no surprises....

I really do not know how else to describe it.

Enjoy your reading. If you master Hokes book, you are well equipped to discover more

Regards Per-Ove

 

[CattMurry]

You know Catt.
Many times in refining, the only simple answer is that there are no simple answer.

As long as you are refining the same thing with the same procedure every time, one can put down a clear answer.... or maybe not.

Sometimes the temperate or purity of the chemical change. Maybe you had a short lapse of memory or have specially tempting steak for dinner, who knows.

Things change, and we all have to learn to deal with it.
Thus the general base chemistry is what we have to learn, then we need to adapt that to the conditions at hand, this round of refining.

Most of the time there are no surprises....

I really do not know how else to describe it.

Enjoy your reading. If you master Hokes book, you are well equipped to discover more

Regards Per-Ove

-I mean.... Yes. For 1 I understand chemistry is a massive web, and so many variables play a role.
-I have not found a solution I enjoy just yet. Getting carbonized by SOx/sulfuric, or not being able to filter NOx's isn't the rout I want. I was asking on precipitation or cementing actions. I purposely gave a incorrect situation to understand how it was wrong, and the actions/laws/theories on why it was without much avail. My own research cleared it up somewhat, but a teacher would probably be most appropriate in telling me how dumb I was, and why.
-English here is so bad I can hardly understand many users.
-I wasn't surprised, and I'm unsure why you say that. I wish to be overloaded, and surprised with too much data.
-Not sure what you are describing.
-CM. Hokes is religion here, and I'll get to reading her stuff, but I am no fan of nitric. Does the book go into any other methods like chlorine? Peracetic acids? Acid ratio's to material weight/densities of those 2 , methods I just mentioned?
I'm not reading 300+ pages to find a by the book method for nitric refining.
-Plus my questions went way deeper ironically. I'm a little ol noob, but I wanted to know the electro physics, properties, rules, and laws of why materials do what they do.
-Also, reading chemistry equations is not too bad, but many people have many different preferences to write them. such examples would be Molecular, Complete ionic, and net ionic. So, that and learning all the symbolism, and how people are representing equations is slightly challenging as well.

 

[MicheleM]

I wish the mods wrote me books like sheeeeeet. They all just give too generic of answers making learning impossible. They also mix vocabulary, then don't use the proper vocab right after in "generalized" sayings. I can't learn only having partial terminology used here, and there. Many users just let you know how much vocabulary they have, and actually get to no points.

I. WANT. BOOKS. DAMMIT! I WANT TO NOT SPEND 150k YEARLY FOR COLLEGE! lmfao

I will add that I am oblivious many times, but I circle back to apologies for being dumb, and warn that I am a potato. My point is that I'd rather be baffled by very specific outlined, and correct terminology with answers than condescending tones plus generalizations without examples just saying "there are many ways", or something similar over, and over with 0 resolve.

This forum is literally a gold mine of information. IF you wish to learn something about precious metal refining , well , you have to be patient and read it, thread by thread. Chemistry books are useful if you want go deeper but not mandatory

 

[Yggdrasil]

-I mean.... Yes. For 1 I understand chemistry is a massive web, and so many variables play a role.
-I have not found a solution I enjoy just yet. Getting carbonized by SOx/sulfuric, or not being able to filter NOx's isn't the rout I want. I was asking on precipitation or cementing actions. I purposely gave a incorrect situation to understand how it was wrong, and the actions/laws/theories on why it was without much avail. My own research cleared it up somewhat, but a teacher would probably be most appropriate in telling me how dumb I was, and why.
-English here is so bad I can hardly understand many users.
-I wasn't surprised, and I'm unsure why you say that. I wish to be overloaded, and surprised with too much data.
-Not sure what you are describing.
-CM. Hokes is religion here, and I'll get to reading her stuff, but I am no fan of nitric. Does the book go into any other methods like chlorine? Peracetic acids? Acid ratio's to material weight/densities of those 2 , methods I just mentioned?
I'm not reading 300+ pages to find a by the book method for nitric refining.
-Plus my questions went way deeper ironically. I'm a little ol noob, but I wanted to know the electro physics, properties, rules, and laws of why materials do what they do.
-Also, reading chemistry equations is not too bad, but many people have many different preferences to write them. such examples would be Molecular, Complete ionic, and net ionic. So, that and learning all the symbolism, and how people are representing equations is slightly challenging as well.

Well English is not my first language so I try to be as precise as I can.
And I don't realise I described anything?
Regarding formulas in different flavours.
You don't have to use them much in our chemistry.
The dirty chemistry of first reclaiming and then first refining are usually so mixed and dirty that balancing to estimate the amount of chemicals are moot.
The most important reaction as such is AR, and there we strive to use as little Nitric as possible.
For me as mainly hobbyist, I rarely have any brown fumes at all, let alone excess Nitric when done.
For a professional this would not be effective enough.
But the jargon, different formulas and such usually sneak up in you and suddenly they are there
And remember some of our esteemed members have little spare time and many do not speak primary English, some even rely on translators.
So try to be patient with us and study the forum. We try our best.

Regards Per-Ove

 

[CattMurry]

This forum is literally a gold mine of information. IF you wish to learn something about precious metal refining , well , you have to be patient and read it, thread by thread. Chemistry books are useful if you want go deeper but not mandatory

Books I would prefer. Which do you suggest? Reading comments can be helpful, but step by step full explanations would be preferable.