Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?

[MicheleM]

Books I would prefer. Which do you suggest? Reading comments can be helpful, but step by step full explanations would be preferable.

in my life I read many books of inorganic chemistry and physics-chemistry , but no single book gave me the knowledge on refining based on experience that I learnt here (it is a question-answer kind of learning), except for some research paper on specific chemical reaction. So I am not able to suggest you a book

 

[CattMurry]

Well English is not my first language so I try to be as precise as I can.
And I don't realise I described anything?
Regarding formulas in different flavours.
You don't have to use them much in our chemistry.
The dirty chemistry of first reclaiming and then first refining are usually so mixed and dirty that balancing to estimate the amount of chemicals are moot.
The most important reaction as such is AR, and there we strive to use as little Nitric as possible.
For me as mainly hobbyist, I rarely have any brown fumes at all, let alone excess Nitric when done.
For a professional this would not be effective enough.
But the jargon, different formulas and such usually sneak up in you and suddenly they are there
And remember some of our esteemed members have little spare time and many do not speak primary English, some even rely on translators.
So try to be patient with us and study the forum. We try our best.

Regards Per-Ove

-Hm. I should firstly state that I am not just pointing you out on the English, or even you much at all on this point. I applaud those people who are bilingual/multilingual. English is so simple that I depend on it only unfortunately, but I will tell you a secret. I am the worst English speller that you possibly ever meet. So, me saying that part is just factual rather than a verbal ***. It does make it actually complicated for me to understand at times. Now I see you are from Philippines, and I forget I can even see that information. I rarely expect to people to give out such information online.

-For your next part. For proper efficiency to be reached in any way you would want to know mass to volume of solution formulas. Many reactions can even have real negative effects on processing if balances are not met properly. For eating base metals like you said it is so dirty it doesn't matter too much, but if it is your hobby you will want to achieve the best efficiency you can get really. You do also want to avoid any dangerous reactions if present.

- for AR you are correct. You can in essence use very little HNO3 (nitric) to achieve a good results, so that or AP would be my main route. Not fully sure why other's don't prefer AP though.

-This. "But the jargon, different formulas and such usually sneak up in you and suddenly they are there" I couldn't agree with you more. I have never heard reduce/reduction/reducing ever heard more backwards than in chemistry in my life, and that's just a small example. The jargon gets WHEW, but it's still doable. It's more how people prefer to show equations that gets real complicated for my head haha.

-Yes. Even I type these out rapidly, so I don't necessarily scold, or gripe at those who generalize, but it gets slightly confusing just walking in. I usually just state I am a potato, so it may hinder the conversation heavily. I mean this as in; they may go even softer, or even more generalized which can confuse even more haha. I am also new to chemistry, so idk how else to say I'm a potato, but I can learn fast.... depending.

 

[CattMurry]

in my life I read many books of inorganic chemistry and physics-chemistry , but no single book gave me the knowledge on refining based on experience that I learnt here (it is a question-answer kind of learning), except for some research paper on specific chemical reaction. So I am not able to suggest you a book

Physics-chemistry is where I'd like to start. Bottom up basically. Couldn't agree more with learning through questions though. That is in fact why I'd rather do that method here haha. That is speed, time, and overall energy efficient.

 

[MicheleM]

@CattMurry here is where I started Amazon.it: Atkins' Physical Chemistry - Atkins, Peter, de Paula, Julio, Keeler, James - Libri

 

[CattMurry]

@CattMurry here is where I started Amazon.it: Atkins' Physical Chemistry - Atkins, Peter, de Paula, Julio, Keeler, James - Libri

Does it need to be the 11th edition? Just wondering on what differences between the additions. Seems like I can get the international 8th edition for free on PDF, so I would be greatly interested in that option first.

 

[CattMurry]

@CattMurry here is where I started Amazon.it: Atkins' Physical Chemistry - Atkins, Peter, de Paula, Julio, Keeler, James - Libri

Nvm I got it. Thanks again. Nice looking book though. Would prefer the actual physical copy.

 

[butcher]

If you wish to learn chemistry there are thousands of chemistry books, that go into great detail, I have collected many many books on chemistry and several books on refining, the refining books normally barely touch chemistry, and even the best chemistry books only brush on the refining of metal.

Out of the chemistry books, I have collected most of them end up heating my home and going into my woodstove, the same with many of the books on refining, most have some good tidbits of information and I will collect that before the book becomes fuel for the fire,.
Then you will find a few other books that will speak to you with volumes of valuable information like Hoke's book where she teaches chemistry without really going into the details of the chemistry, or a chemistry book well written full of details that seem like it was written just for you and gives you what you need to understand of the chemistry and how recovery and refining, then those books will begin to line your bookshelves.

Keep seeking and you will find, but you may also find you have to continue to search and study even after finding some answers because you will keep finding more of what you do not know or do not understand and you will never learn it all at least in one or more lifetimes.

These arts are not something you learn by hearing something from a friend, or by reading some book, or learning from asking questions on a forum, these skills of chemistry or of recovery and refining are professions that take years to learn and can take the rest of your life to learn more and never touch the surface of.

You seem to wish to learn a skill, art, or profession like electronics, and expect to get all of the answers in one post or two or in one paper with all of the details, by asking a couple of questions, or to find it all in one book, well it is not that simple, you can read thousands of books work with electronics daily your whole life, studying it hard every night, spend years in college or professional classrooms and only touch the surface of what there is to learn about the art, you can spend several lifetimes and still know very little of what there is to learn.

Learning a new skill is more difficult when you first begin, as you gain an understanding the easier it becomes to learn more or gain more of an understanding, so learning becomes easier, but you will never learn or understand it all it is just so vast and there is just so much more to it than meets your eye.

If you wish to learn you must work for it, your education is something that can not just be handed to you on a silver platter, or in some simple book.

Yggdrasil said it very well when he stated the simple answer is, that there is no simple answer.

 

[CattMurry]

If you wish to learn chemistry there are thousands of chemistry books, that go into great detail, I have collected many many books on chemistry and several books on refining, the refining books normally barely touch chemistry, and even the best chemistry books only brush on the refining of metal.

Out of the chemistry books, I have collected most of them end up heating my home and going into my woodstove, the same with many of the books on refining, most have some good tidbits of information and I will collect that before the book becomes fuel for the fire,.
Then you will find a few other books that will speak to you with volumes of valuable information like Hoke's book where she teaches chemistry without really going into the details of the chemistry, or a chemistry book well written full of details that seem like it was written just for you and gives you what you need to understand of the chemistry and how recovery and refining, then those books will begin to line your bookshelves.

Keep seeking and you will find, but you may also find you have to continue to search and study even after finding some answers because you will keep finding more of what you do not know or do not understand and you will never learn it all at least in one or more lifetimes.

These arts are not something you learn by hearing something from a friend, or by reading some book, or learning from asking questions on a forum, these skills of chemistry or of recovery and refining are professions that take years to learn and can take the rest of your life to learn more and never touch the surface of.

You seem to wish to learn a skill, art, or profession like electronics, and expect to get all of the answers in one post or two or in one paper with all of the details, by asking a couple of questions, or to find it all in one book, well it is not that simple, you can read thousands of books work with electronics daily your whole life, studying it hard every night, spend years in college or professional classrooms and only touch the surface of what there is to learn about the art, you can spend several lifetimes and still know very little of what there is to learn.

Learning a new skill is more difficult when you first begin, as you gain an understanding the easier it becomes to learn more or gain more of an understanding, so learning becomes easier, but you will never learn or understand it all it is just so vast and there is just so much more to it than meets your eye.

If you wish to learn you must work for it, your education is something that can not just be handed to you on a silver platter, or in some simple book.

Yggdrasil said it very well when he stated the simple answer is, that there is no simple answer.

Lmfao. Butcher. Love you buddy. Always with the more personal, almost religious, and generalized wisdom. I am aware, and that's why in other comments I have said chemistry is also physics, and is basically everything. I call it a web meaning you pull one string and many more strings come out. I am merely seeking understanding abroad, and I have quite the broad fascination of chemistry, metallurgy, astrophysics, charge/electromagnetic physics, social behaviors, human intent (behaviors), human word play(behaviors), jargon, and loophole plays in law, politics (easily seen through), Teaching/coordinating, animal sciences, and bio sciences like biology, and bio physics, geometry/laws of geometry(mathematics in all fields), religious views/studies, and even more. I do this out of boredom friend, so the solemn message doesn't phase me much. I've learned what there is, so all the in real depth science is up next! These books, and readings on chemistry I will most likely read on the side rather than grind though. Although you are most correct with the bits and pieces of relevant, gold, or good information to seek the actual path you wish to put to action.

 

[CattMurry]

If you wish to learn chemistry there are thousands of chemistry books, that go into great detail, I have collected many many books on chemistry and several books on refining, the refining books normally barely touch chemistry, and even the best chemistry books only brush on the refining of metal.

Out of the chemistry books, I have collected most of them end up heating my home and going into my woodstove, the same with many of the books on refining, most have some good tidbits of information and I will collect that before the book becomes fuel for the fire,.
Then you will find a few other books that will speak to you with volumes of valuable information like Hoke's book where she teaches chemistry without really going into the details of the chemistry, or a chemistry book well written full of details that seem like it was written just for you and gives you what you need to understand of the chemistry and how recovery and refining, then those books will begin to line your bookshelves.

Keep seeking and you will find, but you may also find you have to continue to search and study even after finding some answers because you will keep finding more of what you do not know or do not understand and you will never learn it all at least in one or more lifetimes.

These arts are not something you learn by hearing something from a friend, or by reading some book, or learning from asking questions on a forum, these skills of chemistry or of recovery and refining are professions that take years to learn and can take the rest of your life to learn more and never touch the surface of.

You seem to wish to learn a skill, art, or profession like electronics, and expect to get all of the answers in one post or two or in one paper with all of the details, by asking a couple of questions, or to find it all in one book, well it is not that simple, you can read thousands of books work with electronics daily your whole life, studying it hard every night, spend years in college or professional classrooms and only touch the surface of what there is to learn about the art, you can spend several lifetimes and still know very little of what there is to learn.

Learning a new skill is more difficult when you first begin, as you gain an understanding the easier it becomes to learn more or gain more of an understanding, so learning becomes easier, but you will never learn or understand it all it is just so vast and there is just so much more to it than meets your eye.

If you wish to learn you must work for it, your education is something that can not just be handed to you on a silver platter, or in some simple book.

Yggdrasil said it very well when he stated the simple answer is, that there is no simple answer.

Also, education in all forms is a mere conversation of two parties, or personal experiment like reactions which I do with humans each day friend. Just like a chemistry project. Me asking questions, or seeking data in one way is still work. You always seem emotional, and I am unsure why. Share some bits and pieces of yours then. I simply grind data out of raw boredom anyways. Why do you think I said I don't wanna pay 150k yearly for data? I have no real path, and you *** yourself showing your colors saying what you say. I seek no silver platter. My "platter" has been smashed through horrors you cannot withstand to witness, and then the shards shredded into my eyes, and throat. What do you assume wise one? I am here for money? Oh no my dearest friend. I am here for nothing, and for everything data whatever way it comes. In this field I am a mere child in infancy in my understanding, and capacity, but I leap in understanding. Takes a bit, but when it clicks I jump, but again..... I jump in understanding, but lack any action to put forth, or profit from.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Now I see you are from Philippines, and I forget I can even see that information. I rarely expect to people to give out such information online.

Well slightly more complicated than that. I'm Norwegian living in the Philippines.
Trying to get the gripe of a totally new language with completely different structure and grammar.

But I'm a bit flabbergasted by your "poetic" writing in the last post.
One moment you talk about simple answers and clear language, next you serve us something that is far from that, almost from the times of Shakespear?
Sometimes I wish I could write like that, but not here.

Regards Per-Ove

Regarding the personal info.
I do not plan to say or do anything that are legally questionable, and I plan to be polite and correct in my dealings here so I do not foresee it as an issue to have it open.

 

[Geo]

There is a balance that we should try and achieve when we give an answer to the more serious questions. When someone asks for a simple answer to a complicated process, instead of trying to give step by step instructions (which is useless because there are no "cookie cutter" processes", I feel it is better to point someone to the information they need and can learn it at their own pace. Are you really helping someone by spoon feeding them step by step? Only if your intentions are being on call to answer questions at any time. If it were a one on one, that may work, but the proportion of people who know and people who wants to know is too far apart. The people who know spent the time to learn and someone expecting them to stop what they are doing and answer a burning question is really very selfish. Search for yourself first. Experiment if you can to prove your self right or wrong. When you try and fail a few times, then you will not only have more respect for those that know how to do it correctly, you know what questions to ask to get the answer you need and then have the experience to understand the answer that was given to you. If you are given an answer to your question and you don't understand the answer, then asking and answering was a complete waste of time.

 

[CattMurry]

Well slightly more complicated than that. I'm Norwegian living in the Philippines.
Trying to get the gripe of a totally new language with completely different structure and grammar.

But I'm a bit flabbergasted by your "poetic" writing in the last post.
One moment you talk about simple answers and clear language, next you serve us something that is far from that, almost from the times of Shakespear?
Sometimes I wish I could write like that, but not here.

Regards Per-Ove

Regarding the personal info.
I do not plan to say or do anything that are legally questionable, and I plan to be polite and correct in my dealings here so I do not foresee it as an issue to have it open.

Hm? I wouldn't take it as Shakespearian type of poetry, but thanks I think. The last 2 statements were directed to Butcher, and not anyone else. I attempt my best to stay kind, but it appears some just want to say learning is not easy, or within grasp in many different ways. I am not so ignorant to think learning is so easily achievable haha. Again this is explaining the past post which was not directed at you. I commend you for learning a new language. English is known to be simple, but apparently hard for many to learn from other languages (so I have heard). For me only English's spelling hardly makes any sense to me, but it works, and is what we have.

 

[CattMurry]

There is a balance that we should try and achieve when we give an answer to the more serious questions. When someone asks for a simple answer to a complicated process, instead of trying to give step by step instructions (which is useless because there are no "cookie cutter" processes", I feel it is better to point someone to the information they need and can learn it at their own pace. Are you really helping someone by spoon feeding them step by step? Only if your intentions are being on call to answer questions at any time. If it were a one on one, that may work, but the proportion of people who know and people who wants to know is too far apart. The people who know spent the time to learn and someone expecting them to stop what they are doing and answer a burning question is really very selfish. Search for yourself first. Experiment if you can to prove your self right or wrong. When you try and fail a few times, then you will not only have more respect for those that know how to do it correctly, you know what questions to ask to get the answer you need and then have the experience to understand the answer that was given to you. If you are given an answer to your question and you don't understand the answer, then asking and answering was a complete waste of time.

Confused on what you mean. I can't not force people to answer my threads, or questions no matter how burning they may be. They chose, and choose themselves. lol. I agree that you point to more helpful means of "reading for yourself" type of information though. Yes, I do agree with asking more appropriate, and accurate questions haha. When I try to look things up I do get many different answers, so it is not easy to know which is right, or how they might both, or all might be right. Has nothing to do with respect though. I am kind until people don't point out I am wrong, or why. Be brutal. It helps. Is what I would say to explaining things to me. Of course I also realize that also a few things have flown past my clueless head in comments, and is why I try to reiterate my understanding of what was said, and ask if that is the right way of understanding whatever was previously mentioned without much avail. It is not just wasting your time, but all of ours. It definitely can get frustrating, and I agree.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Just an eye opener.
The second reading of Hokes book gives quite a few ahaa moments.
So if you are finished reading once.
Just try once more.
PoA

 

[CattMurry]

Just an eye opener.
The second reading of Hokes book gives quite a few ahaa moments.
So if you are finished reading once.
Just try once more.
PoA

Didn't even glance at it yet, but I shall take your advice. It just seems like her way is like a single very thought out way through nitric uses which I commend her for. At the same time though I don't enjoy nitric, BUT THEN AGAIN I am ignorant to what her work even states, so I am shooting into the dark from that standpoint. I'd just rather not read 400 pages for a single route if you can understand. I do appreciate the responses.

 

[CattMurry]

If you wish to learn chemistry there are thousands of chemistry books, that go into great detail, I have collected many many books on chemistry and several books on refining, the refining books normally barely touch chemistry, and even the best chemistry books only brush on the refining of metal.

Out of the chemistry books, I have collected most of them end up heating my home and going into my woodstove, the same with many of the books on refining, most have some good tidbits of information and I will collect that before the book becomes fuel for the fire,.
Then you will find a few other books that will speak to you with volumes of valuable information like Hoke's book where she teaches chemistry without really going into the details of the chemistry, or a chemistry book well written full of details that seem like it was written just for you and gives you what you need to understand of the chemistry and how recovery and refining, then those books will begin to line your bookshelves.

Keep seeking and you will find, but you may also find you have to continue to search and study even after finding some answers because you will keep finding more of what you do not know or do not understand and you will never learn it all at least in one or more lifetimes.

These arts are not something you learn by hearing something from a friend, or by reading some book, or learning from asking questions on a forum, these skills of chemistry or of recovery and refining are professions that take years to learn and can take the rest of your life to learn more and never touch the surface of.

You seem to wish to learn a skill, art, or profession like electronics, and expect to get all of the answers in one post or two or in one paper with all of the details, by asking a couple of questions, or to find it all in one book, well it is not that simple, you can read thousands of books work with electronics daily your whole life, studying it hard every night, spend years in college or professional classrooms and only touch the surface of what there is to learn about the art, you can spend several lifetimes and still know very little of what there is to learn.

Learning a new skill is more difficult when you first begin, as you gain an understanding the easier it becomes to learn more or gain more of an understanding, so learning becomes easier, but you will never learn or understand it all it is just so vast and there is just so much more to it than meets your eye.

If you wish to learn you must work for it, your education is something that can not just be handed to you on a silver platter, or in some simple book.

Yggdrasil said it very well when he stated the simple answer is, that there is no simple answer.

I miss you my ol friend. You seemed to have gone quiet. My question for simple answers is why not hit em with the full data then? If you care not answer, or spend the time why answer at all? Just to disgruntle? My very abusive parents always said if you have nothing to bring to the conversation don't speak at all. They were right in this stance (when they used it appropriately), and "If you have nothing nice to say do not say anything at all."

My conclusion: If simpletons are a bother then diverge their interests with every bit of data, and knowledge you have at them. If it sticks.... good for them. If it doesn't you got your way of shoving someone down yet again. BTW Butcher your name suits you fairly well. Much love <3

 

[butcher]

Yes, my name suits me just fine.

You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder, sorry about that, it must be a heavy load to carry that kind of burden aeound with you.

I have spent years of hard work to learn the skills I have and I have also spent years helping others who wish to help themselves and further their own skills. I have written and contributed enough information to write a book to help others here on the forum.

If you are interested in learning or wish to learn these skills, or the chemistry involved you may some of those helpful to read or gain something from it.

I tried to help you, but apparently, you are already too smart for your own britches and know better, or just cannot hear, or are just more interested in playing some kind of game, sir I do not play games.

If you need help understanding some of the chemistry and are serious I will still be glad to assist you where I am able to, if you have some kind of chip to carry concerning me and do not need my help that's fine with me too, I will just spend my time helping others who are willing to learn where I can,

I will not play games.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hear hear.
Good Butcher, I thank you.

 

[CattMurry]

Yes, my name suits me just fine.

You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder, sorry about that, it must be a heavy load to carry that kind of burden aeound with you.

I have spent years of hard work to learn the skills I have and I have also spent years helping others who wish to help themselves and further their own skills. I have written and contributed enough information to write a book to help others here on the forum.

If you are interested in learning or wish to learn these skills, or the chemistry involved you may some of those helpful to read or gain something from it.

I tried to help you, but apparently, you are already too smart for your own britches and know better, or just cannot hear, or are just more interested in playing some kind of game, sir I do not play games.

If you need help understanding some of the chemistry and are serious I will still be glad to assist you where I am able to, if you have some kind of chip to carry concerning me and do not need my help that's fine with me too, I will just spend my time helping others who are willing to learn where I can,

I will not play games.

You... still didn't provide me what went over my head. I had asked that. I could write a few books myself on human reactions, emotions, and well.... quite a lot about life to be perfectly honest. I knew you'd have a lot to offer . I can always tell someone who has a bunch in there, but if they detect you are a moron, or incompetent they will do that... Resist, and discourage you after by being annoyed in essence. I'm always down to chat to be strait haha. I don't say be brutal ( to me) as a joke at all. Literally say "I just explained this, and now you are saying it backwards moron" AT ME. Literally. I use anxiety through adrenalin as an accelerant for fun. What is this about being too smart?! I have said repeatedly on here I'm a moron! I still say it! I said I am an infant in this field of study. You don't play games yet you enjoy lying! You make little sense to me my friend, but chips on my shoulder no. I've had every chip taken out of me every day unfortunately, and I play no games either. Any hypocritical technicality I'll call you out on, so in my learning do it back at me. Don't be so passive we see you're sparky, and quite lively!
You don't even know who I am. I'm someone who loves sparky people like yourself. You, and other's provide the best data and results depending on what data i wish to search for. <3. And of course I hope to share mine as well!

 

[Yggdrasil]

What is it with you Catt?
If you spent your energy on reading and studying in stead of bickering and writing long essays (well written by the way) you would be well on the way of understanding at least some of the topics in here.

So in danger of repeating myself.
Please search the forum, read miss Hokes book and if something are still unclear ask specific questions.

Per-Ove