Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?

[CattMurry]

Hm? I'd say the same about and to Butcher, but that's how buddies, and gangs work I guess. Seems like a bored individual like myself, and as I have said he did not repeat himself... Just jarred, and spat verbally in annoyance instead of being specific about how I am a moron. I don't doubt it, but it of course needs explaining for me to really learn otherwise his "I help so many" is a mere appearance for the forum.

 

[CattMurry]

BTW: "My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed."

My primary language is not English.....

is the correct grammar.

 

[Yggdrasil]

BTW: "My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed."

My primary language is not English.....

is the correct grammar.

I'll fix it. Thanks.
Per-Ove

 

[Yggdrasil]

Done

 

[CattMurry]

What is it with you Catt?
If you spent your energy on reading and studying in stead of bickering and writing long essays (well written by the way) you would be well on the way of understanding at least some of the topics in here.

So in danger of repeating myself.
Please search the forum, read miss Hokes book and if something are still unclear ask specific questions.

Per-Ove

If I may add as well that Butcher actually had a prime spot to embarrass me right after I had a little drama outburst right here:
"What are you having issue explaining? I simply only wondered if the youtuber was being honest which he was, but his explanation is quite a bit simplified. None of you really answer strait forward the main question either. Baking soda is a reducer, and it neutralizes many acids that I can think of just like SMB, and others. Obviously you wouldn't just throw it into a melting pot of solutions......"

If he had squashed me right here quoting me I would've been toasted, and learned why I was aggravating him.

 

[Geo]

Confused on what you mean. I can't not force people to answer my threads, or questions no matter how burning they may be. They chose, and choose themselves. lol. I agree that you point to more helpful means of "reading for yourself" type of information though. Yes, I do agree with asking more appropriate, and accurate questions haha. When I try to look things up I do get many different answers, so it is not easy to know which is right, or how they might both, or all might be right. Has nothing to do with respect though. I am kind until people don't point out I am wrong, or why. Be brutal. It helps. Is what I would say to explaining things to me. Of course I also realize that also a few things have flown past my clueless head in comments, and is why I try to reiterate my understanding of what was said, and ask if that is the right way of understanding whatever was previously mentioned without much avail. It is not just wasting your time, but all of ours. It definitely can get frustrating, and I agree.

The difference is learning as apposed to simply following directions. If you were following a recipe and you were being told step by step what to do and only given information you need at the time, you are not learning but just simply following directions. It's not only reading but applying what you have read in a practical way. It's called experimenting. You learn from experimentation. It grants experience. Even though you may complete the recipe following directions, but you may not learn because you are given information as needed. What happens if you lose the recipe? Will you remember the whole thing after performing it one time? Most refining happens in steps with each step having sub-steps or possible combinations that needs to be applied at different points. After you have performed the steps your self, then you can formulate questions that is most beneficial to what you are needing to do. When someone answers, the answer will not be a mystery to you because you have experienced it and have first hand knowledge.

 

[CattMurry]

The difference is learning as apposed to simply following directions. If you were following a recipe and you were being told step by step what to do and only given information you need at the time, you are not learning but just simply following directions. It's not only reading but applying what you have read in a practical way. It's called experimenting. You learn from experimentation. It grants experience. Even though you may complete the recipe following directions, but you may not learn because you are given information as needed. What happens if you lose the recipe? Will you remember the whole thing after performing it one time? Most refining happens in steps with each step having sub-steps or possible combinations that needs to be applied at different points. After you have performed the steps your self, then you can formulate questions that is most beneficial to what you are needing to do. When someone answers, the answer will not be a mystery to you because you have experienced it and have first hand knowledge.

You don't necessarily need to learn through experimenting. Talk to math graduates. Have they done some architect? mmmm. I don't mean to nit-pick because it is very validating, but this has irony in how Butcher talks completely. It does take broad understanding all around doesn't it? You are talking to someone who always seeks many ways of learning, and never a single. It is making me giggle tbh. If you haven't seen all my threads I do experiment in ways I know safe.... For example my HCL finding. Learned it can be basically used to eat zinc, and Ni plating which in essence flakes, or De-plates Au from gold plated materials. It can also detect fake anything fairly well too.
-I should add: it jellifies paints, so you don't get scammed by "gold looking" materials as well. If plated gold has paint on it HCL may be used to remove that too, but I am unsure about all paints. Most simple jewelry paints used "jellify" though.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Not entirely correct, their lab is a blackboard or a piece of paper.
Different tools, same techniques.
Train, experiment and perform.
Numbers or chemicals, both are tools.

 

[CattMurry]

Not entirely correct, their lab is a blackboard or a piece of paper.
Different tools, same techniques.
Train, experiment and perform.
Numbers or chemicals, both are tools.

I commend for the effort in correcting, but their "lab" cannot kill instantly, or worse.... slowly with the most horrific deaths feasible. They also write to show examples just like chemistry teachers. In chemistry you also use pencils, a board, and everything else in that environment. You can basically have a full career in mathematics without really doing in life work involving much of the math, and it's depth that you learn. Like quantum theories, and mathematical plausibility.... they are used to create sonar systems, yet not many teachers go into creating defense systems, or are engineers at all. (which is sad really).
You can learn chemistry on paper without actually doing anything real as well, but it concretes the understanding of novices/students. it helps even the most knowledgeable chemists I'm sure, but especially satisfies their curiosity as well haha.

 

[Yggdrasil]

You really need to have the last say, do you?

Still.
I think my argument stands in the setting it was made, dangers only needs to be addressed and alleviated.

You read, research and execute what you have learned, then if needed go back, learn more and so on.

 

[CattMurry]

You really need to have the last say, do you?

Still.
I think my argument stands in the setting it was made, dangers only needs to be addressed and alleviated.

You read, research and execute what you have learned, then if needed go back, learn more and so on.

Not at all. Just sense to be made fully really. If it is not other's can get confused. Don't be so defensive! I let other's have the last say on threads. Go check.

Fair enough. Many arguments are point of view, but you disregard that you can know chemistry on paper without really doing it. Just like doing reactions, and not seeing every danger/gas/reaction in your face, but you know it is there. You learned it on paper, so you can do the whole setup virtually, then even get things like grants/loans, and other things by being just smart in that field on paper.

Also like getting a job. Have you done that job yet? No, but you may be accepted for your knowledge in that particular field, and know your way around that information, thus being prepared, or qualified.

That would also be: You really need the last say don't you?
Much love
-Matt

 

[Yggdrasil]

I rest my case, I'm out of this thread for now.
I have other things to do.

 

[CattMurry]

You really need to have the last say, do you?

Still.
I think my argument stands in the setting it was made, dangers only needs to be addressed and alleviated.

You read, research and execute what you have learned, then if needed go back, learn more and so on.

I'll give you a arguing point though. To know everything on paper you must depend on someone before you who had to do the thinking, or "experiment", so that remains true.

 

[Alabama938]

Good judgement come from experience, experience comes from bad judgement. Learning from mistakes by others helps mitigate your own as you progress through developing expertise. Which takes something like 100,000 hours of not just reading books, doing calculations, but in this case doing chemistry.

Telling people to read Hoke is a litmus test, that book can be read in a few afternoons. It’s like a classic textbook of surgery using pencil drawings, still holds up but it’s not the whole story obviously.

I fully appreciate when these guys get condescending, because they can tell when you don’t deserve the answer/explanation/time it takes to type this. I will say though, asking what is your/the preferred methodology ie what's the best way is,in my mind, the best way to start a discussion, you just need someone to bite.

 

[Jado]

Good judgement come from experience, experience comes from bad judgement. Learning from mistakes by others helps mitigate your own as you progress through developing expertise. Which takes something like 100,000 hours of not just reading books, doing calculations, but in this case doing chemistry.

Telling people to read Hoke is a litmus test, that book can be read in a few afternoons. It’s like a classic textbook of surgery using pencil drawings, still holds up but it’s not the whole story obviously.

I fully appreciate when these guys get condescending, because they can tell when you don’t deserve the answer/explanation/time it takes to type this. I will say though, asking what is your/the preferred methodology ie what's the best way is,in my mind, the best way to start a discussion, you just need someone to bite.

There’s a tribe in Africa I read about back in school who use a highly toxic plant as a food staple. We learn from books in our civilized society because that’s where all the dead people’s failures are contained. Well said, but I thought it needed some kick.

 

[Geo]

CattMurry​

I've played the devils advocate many times on the forum and it's actually gotten me yelled at by the admin a few times. From my standpoint, being the devils advocate is fine up to a certain point, but being confrontational all the time does not serve you well in a community like this. There are some major egos on the forum and do not tolerate being questioned very well. If enough members complain about it, right or wrong, it's much simpler and easier to remove the member than to try and address each complaint. If you enjoy the atmosphere and the knowledge provided, perhaps you should spend more time learning the tried and true methods first before you start trying to be innovative and try to reinvent the wheel. Please accept this bit of advice in the spirit it is given. Try to stay out of everyone's face for awhile and soak up some of the knowledge in the library maybe.

 

[Zhazham]

As a newbie, i try my best not to be an annoyance. I read a lot but sometimes don't understand all i read. Also, sometimes i just don't understand everything as english is just my third language.

I totally understand frustration of Senior members. These are not simple things, and are potentially deadly things, so i understand the feeling of responsibility and frustration of Senior members.

 

[Zhazham]

Also, it takes 10 000 hours to be a master of some subject. I think this is not an exception. There are no shortcuts of mastering this.

 

[Edlin]

Not at all. Just sense to be made fully really. If it is not other's can get confused. Don't be so defensive! I let other's have the last say on threads. Go check.

Fair enough. Many arguments are point of view, but you disregard that you can know chemistry on paper without really doing it. Just like doing reactions, and not seeing every danger/gas/reaction in your face, but you know it is there. You learned it on paper, so you can do the whole setup virtually, then even get things like grants/loans, and other things by being just smart in that field on paper.

Also like getting a job. Have you done that job yet? No, but you may be accepted for your knowledge in that particular field, and know your way around that information, thus being prepared, or qualified.

That would also be: You really need the last say don't you?
Much love
-Matt

In Chemistry if your knowledge is only theoretical, then that knowledge is incomplete. That is the reason why laboratory work is an essential part of any chemistry course.

 

[orvi]

In Chemistry if your knowledge is only theoretical, then that knowledge is incomplete. That is the reason why laboratory work is an essential part of any chemistry course.

It should be a healthy portion of both theory and practical experience. Espetially if you are doing some new chemistry - so you cannot be certain about what will happen afterwards. That is the reason why I always advise new members (most of the times without much theoretical background or chemical education) to stick to PROVEN working procedures and do not "invent" theyre own to the time they would be confident about what could happen. In this business, most of the intended "shortcuts" make more mess and prolong the work, or even worse, make it more dangerous.

As an example. One guy intended to digest PGM bromide salt in AR to obtain a workable solution. Fair, working reaction... But he does not thought about what will happen with all the bromides... Yep, nitric in AR oxidize bromides to elemental bromine, which not only look scary (red heavy clouds, from the beaker they tend to fall to the bottom of the hood), but also wreck about every material old fume hoods were constructed from. Low boiling point makes this even bigger "disaster".
Unrusting everything that was in the hood at time of reaction took one whole day. If he prepared for the reaction and learned about bromine and consequences, we could save hundreds of euros Luckily, it was done with all PPE in place.