100 Ounces of pins

[tek4g63]

Thank you Harold. Have you seen auric chloride this color before? Do you think I should precede with the additions of bleach, or would it be best to decant and save what gold I can while I try and figure out what to do with the orange gold bering solution?

 

[maynman1751]

The color is not the golden brown I have come to expect. Instead it is orange! I hope I have not just messed everything up.

The color is fine! It's probably because it's more concentrated that gives it the deeper color. Continue with your dissolution.

 

[Geo]

i agree, orange is the color of very concentrated gold in solution, even red right before the liquid becomes saturated with gold.

 

[tek4g63]

Thank you guys! I'm very sorry for little freak out I had. Up to this last stage in my process I have had very few problems. I hope you all can understand why I kind of freaked out, I have put allot of hard work into this and I want to be successful. Thank you for calming me down.

I finished up with the digestion of the powder for the second refine and as you said, it was almost red (red orange). It is setting out right now letting the chlorine evaporate. I will precipitate the gold once again after work and post pictures. Thank you all again!

 

[Harold_V]

Thank you Harold. Have you seen auric chloride this color before? Do you think I should precede with the additions of bleach, or would it be best to decant and save what gold I can while I try and figure out what to do with the orange gold bering solution?

The only thing that comes to mind, for me, is that there may be a trace of palladium present. Color does strike me as being slightly odd, but that may be due to the monitor. Hard to say.
Try taking a drop, which is placed in a spot plate. Add a crystal of ferrous sulfate, which will precipitate the gold in solution. Test the resulting drop with stannous, or with DMG, to see if you get a reaction for palladium.

I'm used to seeing gold solutions go from yellow through a more red/orange color. Yours, on my monitor, appears to have a hint of brown, instead, which would indicate to me the presence of a hint of palladium.

In my experiences, gold that was precipitated from a solution that contained palladium had a tendency to come down a chocolate brown color. Never the light cinnamon color that was typical.

The solution in question is a wonderful example of why it's important to understand testing.

Harold

 

[tek4g63]

Thank you Harold.

I do not have a watch glass yet or ferrous sulfate. Would the bottom if a jar work (flipped upside down of course). Would sodium meta bisulfite work in the place of the ferrous sulfate (copperas)?

I know these questions truly show my inexperience, but I assure you I will only have to ask them once.

I hope to get some better lab ware soon after I sell a bit of my gold. Maybe I have something I could trade another member for a watch glass and a proper flask. Just a thought.

 

[Geo]

Thad, for months, i used a 5" lens from a magnifying glass. of coarse it is glass and not plastic. i paid $2 for a 2 piece set (2.5" and 5") from Freds department store. i took the glass from the frame. it worked great until i got a watch glass. also, i bought an 8" clock from the Dollar General store for $8 and removed the glass (we still use the clock).

 

[goldenchild]

The powder witch was all clumped up after the first refine, stayed clumped up through the wash cycles.it would sort of bust up when I stirred it but it would quickly clump back up. Is that normal?

If precipitated gold is quite pure, yes, it's normal. It readily bonds to itself. In my experience, I found that gold that came down very dirty would not bond, even after being well washed. It may be to do with its configuration. Dunno.

Harold

I find that no matter how dirty a solution, filtration is the key to nice clumpy gold. I've created some of the nastiest solutions you can think of but as long as I took my time and filtered it to the point where you could see straight through it from the bottom of the precipitation vessel, the gold would come together. Even after merely decanting and boiling in plain water the gold would bond to itself even further. An extremely clean precipitation vessel is also very important. Right before every precipitation I clean the precipitation vessel with rubbing alcohol and toilet tissue. When you can tilt your precipitation vessel around sliding the gold every which way knocking into the sides of the glass and there are no clouds you know you have very clean gold.

 

[tek4g63]

Just for the sake of learning I turned a baby food jar upside down and put a decent sized drop of my red orange auric chloride on the bottom. Them I took a small drop of my SMB water mix and added it to the drop of auric chloride. A reaction happened and after the brown dust settled out I touched the top of the now clear droplet with a q tip. Then put a drop of my new made stannous chloride on that, no reaction, no color change at all. I took a different q tip and touched my auric chloride then tested that with stannous and immediately got a deep purple color. I know this is not exactly what Harold suggested so I will wait to go any further. Just thought I would share.

Sorry no pictures this time, my phone is charging up.

Thank you for the suggestions geo, I will keep my eyes open for similar items.

 

[etack]

You should be fine the odds of Pd is slim to none. your feed stock was only unused pins so it unlikely that there was Pd plating under the gold.

Sometimes when I use HCl Bleach the color is dark like that till all the Cl gas is gone.

Cant wait to see you yields.

Eric

 

[Harold_V]

Thank you Harold.

I do not have a watch glass yet or ferrous sulfate. Would the bottom if a jar work (flipped upside down of course).

Not a watch glass, but a spot plate. You can use a white plastic spoon for a spot plate (for this, you can thank Palladium, for it was his idea).

For the record, I endorse spot plate use. It's much better than using any other type of testing apparatus, as you can further manipulate the resulting test by transferring some of the solution to yet another cavity. Often you will do a reaction of one kind, simply so you can do a test after the reaction, like in this case. The whole idea is to eliminate any gold that may be in solution, so traces of other values will be more visible. They are often obscured by the bold reaction of stannous chloride with gold.

Would sodium meta bisulfite work in the place of the ferrous sulfate (copperas)?

It might, but I like the ferrous sulfate because you can watch a leaf of gold develop around the crystal, plus you can stir the drop with a glass rod to ensure that all of the gold is down. Because it forms a film instead of fine powder (unlike SMB), the solution is clear. That's a nice feature, but not always important. I suggest you study Hoke on testing.

I know these questions truly show my inexperience, but I assure you I will only have to ask them once.

Not a problem, so long as you pursue testing as you're advised. Nothing will set you free in refining like having the ability to determine what you have. Without testing, it's a crap shoot.

I hope to get some better lab ware soon after I sell a bit of my gold. Maybe I have something I could trade another member for a watch glass and a proper flask. Just a thought.

Aside form buying proper lab ware and chemicals, when I started refining, I bought precious little. I grew slowly, assuring that what I was doing was at least paying for itself. I understand if you're running on a shoestring, but do yourself a favor and get the basic things that are REALLY needed, such as proper testing chemicals and supplies. Without them, you run blind. One careless mistake can cost you far more than buying these essential provisions---a mistake that may be made because you can't test properly.

 

[tek4g63]

So sorry for the mix up Harold. I have a white carrell ware dish (more like a tiny plate) that I put over my jar when I'm dissolving my gold. It's about 6in in diameter, I think it was like something a tea cup would have been set on. This dish would work as a spot plate wouldn't it?

I will probably be selling the button from this batch. For two reasons. The first and probably most important reason is to motivate my wife, so I can keep doing what I enjoy. The second reason is, to buy some supplies so that I can keep improving my technique, and to put some money towards buying a good camera.

I have a son that just turned 3 and a daughter that will celebrate her first birthday next month. I want to be able to get good quality pictures and videos of them especially at this age. All I use right now is my phone and although it can take good pictures, any one with kids knows that that little delay when your camera tries to focus can be the difference between capturing a super cute moment and the child moving and missing it entirely. I'm sorry about my rambling. Back to the subject.

I will set up for your suggested testing method this weekend and report back with what I find. Thank you!

 

[goldsilverpro]

Just about anything white that is impervious to acids could be used in lieu of a spot plate. Someone (Palladium?) uses white plastic spoons.

 

[Palladium]

You can find a plastic spoon anywhere. :mrgreen:

 

[Harold_V]

This dish would work as a spot plate wouldn't it?

Yes, and can be cleaned chemically if it gets stained badly (using AR). The only real negative aspect is that it doesn't have a cavity, unlike a spot plate. They come with six or twelve cavities, so the drop isn't spread. A small one with six cavities is generally more than adequate, although if you have options, get one with twelve, so if you're performing a series of tests, you don't have to stop to clean the cavities between tests. When you've finished, everything is washed to your stock pot and the cavities wiped clean with a piece of paper towel, which is sent to your waste storage to be incinerated and recycled. You lose nothing by testing.

I will probably be selling the button from this batch. For two reasons. The first and probably most important reason is to motivate my wife, so I can keep doing what I enjoy. The second reason is, to buy some supplies so that I can keep improving my technique, and to put some money towards buying a good camera.

I have a son that just turned 3 and a daughter that will celebrate her first birthday next month. I want to be able to get good quality pictures and videos of them especially at this age. All I use right now is my phone and although it can take good pictures, any one with kids knows that that little delay when your camera tries to focus can be the difference between capturing a super cute moment and the child moving and missing it entirely. I'm sorry about my rambling. Back to the subject.

Do not apologize for your good thinking. The kids should come first, and your wife will stand behind you 100% when she realizes that what you're doing will bring money for such things.

I wish you continued success in your endeavors.

Wish the tiny one a happy birthday for me for next month. Mine is the 14th.

Harold

 

[tek4g63]

I will defiantly tell her a special happy birthday from you. Her's is the 15th. My sons birthday was last month. I wasn't so sure about having them so close together in age but now I can see we made the right decision.

Now I have to confess something.........I hope this does not negatively affect the relationship that I feel like I have with this community.

I set aside 1 fluid ounce of my red orange auric chloride so that I could further build my skills with testing as Harold has suggested (along with the help of Hoke). But mine and my wife's excitement and eagerness got the best of me. I precipitated the gold from the remaining solution. The solution was tap water clear after about an hour and my gold was a pretty light brown mud in the bottom. With my wife over looking this time I ran the powder through the wash cycles, witch didn't take long because there was no color change to my solutions. So I focused on the near boiling water rinses to remove salts at the last stage, what I mean is that I water rinsed it more times than I would if I were just going to refine it again. Put the freshly washed powder in the oven on a pyrex casserole dish to dry then with my wife, son, and nephew watching I melted 6 beautiful buttons!

I really hope that I don't lose any respect I may have had with you all. This is just my first real run, I know that I will get better each and every time.

Will weigh the buttons tomorrow at work and post asap. Thank all of you for your help!

 

[kaits31]

Excellent job! Those buttons look very clean and really nice! 8)

 

[maynman1751]

Great looking buttons tek4!

 

[tek4g63]

Thank you! I will try and get better pictures tomorrow to show the "fire"inside the pipes.

I will be posting a few of these for sale within the next few days. Feel free to let me know if you would be interested via PM.

Thad.

 

[jmdlcar]

Very nice button keep it up.