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Gold Refining Forum

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butcher said:
There is a better way to separate the base metals from jewelry like 14k, melt with three parts silver(in-quarter the gold with silver), pour this low karat melt into shot, and then dissolve the silver and other base metals in nitric acid (gold will not dissolve in this acid), we lower the karat with silver because the 14K is a mix of two metals that dissolve in different acids, nitric for silver (the gold which does not dissolve in nitric can keep you from dissolving the silver if you did not in-quarter the gold), once we remove silver and the other base metals from the gold we can then dissolve the gold, (and the little bit of metals we have not removed), this is usually done in aqua regia (HCl with nitric added), if we tried to dissolve the 14K gold the silver in it will not dissolve in this acid and forms an insoluble crust keeping our acid from attacking the gold in the karat jewelry, here again is why we in-quartered our gold to remove silver above, once we get gold dissolved we use a chemical to selectively precipitate the gold as pure as we can, leaving other metals in solution, the gold would then most likely be dissolved again to refine it further.

I just want to start off by saying Thank you to Jim for allowing me that book. Every where I found it, it cost $130-$150, so again thank you. I will start in on it Sunday.

My questions for Butcher are...1. what do you mean to melt with three parts, or in-quarter the gold?

2. what do you mean by pour this low karat into shot?

if what I am understanding of the rest of it is the same as if you were to try and remove gold plating from the fingers or pins in electronics, is that correct.

The reason I am trying to get to the bottom of this is because I live in North Dakota and it has alot of older generation folks up here. So
when they have estate sales and what not, there is a lot of older jewelry going for very cheap. So i kind of started picking up the $5 boxes with gold earrings or old class rings, etc..

So please forgive me for asking so many questions. I'm just trying not to waste my time or money on this.

Thanks again everyone
Jeremiah
 
Jeremiah,
Take your time and study the forum, and read Hoke's book. It isn't a one day or one week course. There is much you should learn and fully understand before you jump into this hobby or adventure.
Don't start any processing until you understand what you are doing, what the next steps are, and most importantly that you know and follow all the safety precautions.

The book is compliments of the forum, I just gave you the link. That book should answer all your questions and the next questions you will have. This forum and the search box will answer most of the rest.

Jim
 
im not Butcher, but ill try to explain.inquarting, is bringing the karat down to 1/4 or 6K. since 24K is pure gold,6K is 1/4 gold. this brings the gold content of a piece of material into the range where nitric acid can attack the base metal between the gold atoms, digesting the base metal and leaving pure 24K gold behind. this process is mainly used on gold of a known Karat and weight for the purposes of adding enough silver to the mix to effectively bring the gold to 6K. silver is used because it takes less acid to digest silver than it does other metals, like copper.

shotting is melting the inquarted gold and pouring it through a melting dish the has had a hole drilled in the bottom and is heated so the melted metal will flow through it evenly and freely. the melted metal is poured through the dish into a metal (stainless steel preferably) container of cool to cold water. as the metal pours through the hole, it forms drops and as it contacts the water, hardens into round shot like BB's. this increases the area to give the acid a better chance to do its work.
 
Thanks Geo. I will start my reading tomorrow morning/afternoonish of Hokes book.

I am a beginner, and know that it will take awhile for this process to happen for me. Are there any tips as far as what I should really be looking for when it comes to searching for cpu's or things like that.

Im going to attach an e-bay listing and I would like to know what yall think of the listing, if that is something I should be looking for when trying to find computer hardware.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1LB-Gold-Scraps-Recovery-1-650-Gold-Pin-Connector-ERNI-453g-PEELED-/190647016842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c63729d8a

Thanks you,
Jeremiah
 
Ebay is about the worst place to look for computer scrap to refine. You are almost guaranteed to pay too much. It is where you find it, but try not to find it on Ebay, if you plan on not losing money in your new hobby.

Jim
 
Ebay IS the worst place to look for precious metals of any kind. if you need material to experiment with and learn on, then its probably the fastest way to get some other than maybe buy some from a member here. start with something simple and easy, like fingers from finger boards. the AP method is easy and can be made in small or large quantities as needed as long as you have a safe place for the reaction.
 
I followed all the steps, but after a day after adding SMB Ihave got som sort of cristalls. picture 1.
I tried to add some natrium carbonate to test what happends. It happened picture 2.

Hwo knows whats this? THX: Bettina
 

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ysebag

Hard to tell...

Could you write exactly each step that you took in your process ?
 
samuel-a said:
ysebag

Hard to tell...

Could you write exactly each step that you took in your process ?

Thanks for your fast answer

1.Every e-scrap i found mostly RAM + fingers + circutboards with gold on it + HCL+water. (warm up) then sodium nitrate. Waited til the gold dissolved.
2.Then when it was cold added sulfuric acid. (took out the white powder) But after there was still som silver on the top.
3.About 1,5 tee spoon SMB.
4.24 hours later this white crystals on the bottom + (now as i can see there is some gold also + steel some new crystals 48 hours later)
5. took a small amount of cristals, and washed(crashed into a powder).
6.added some natrium carbonate to water and mixed it (i dont have URSA) so now i have this dark red-brown powder.
 
ysebag,

Here is what I see.
You made aqua regia, it is not a good idea to dissolve base metals with the gold in this solution, base metals are removed first, also if there is metal left un-dissolved (even inside of components like circuit board inner traces, the gold can plate back out of solution and can easily be thrown away with that trash.

When any one says circuit boards I think solder, tin if in solution you will have loses in gold.

I see no mention of stannous chloride, how do you know the solution has any values in it.

I see no mention of removing nitric acid.

Sulfuric would help to remove lead sulfate, but you would only need a couple of drops.

I see no mention of diluting solution to remove silver.

I see no mention of filtering.

The natrium carbonate(first i ever heard of that word), I suppose is just baking soda (sodium carbonate) this would change the PH and bring down almost all of those metals you had in solution.

You need to spend some time studying so that you do not waste your gold this way.

Cement on copper, save powder, after you understand more then get the values from these powders.

For the type of materials you had there are easier methods, Aqua regia is not easy for most people when they begin to learn, it has details that need to be followed closely for it to work and for you to get your gold back from it without losing the gold.

Have you studied the acid peroxide process or the HCl/ NaCLO (hydrochloric acid/ sodium hypochlorite [bleach]) process?
 
butcher said:
ysebag,

Here is what I see.
You made aqua regia, it is not a good idea to dissolve base metals with the gold in this solution, base metals are removed first, also if there is metal left un-dissolved (even inside of components like circuit board inner traces, the gold can plate back out of solution and can easily be thrown away with that trash.

When any one says circuit boards I think solder, tin if in solution you will have loses in gold.

I see no mention of stannous chloride, how do you know the solution has any values in it.

I see no mention of removing nitric acid.

Sulfuric would help to remove lead sulfate, but you would only need a couple of drops.

I see no mention of diluting solution to remove silver.

I see no mention of filtering.

The natrium carbonate(first i ever heard of that word), I suppose is just baking soda (sodium carbonate) this would change the PH and bring down almost all of those metals you had in solution.

You need to spend some time studying so that you do not waste your gold this way.

Cement on copper, save powder, after you understand more then get the values from these powders.

For the type of materials you had there are easier methods, Aqua regia is not easy for most people when they begin to learn, it has details that need to be followed closely for it to work and for you to get your gold back from it without losing the gold.

Have you studied the acid peroxide process or the HCl/ NaCLO (hydrochloric acid/ sodium hypochlorite [bleach]) process?



Thank you guys for your answer!!

I already did all of these steps (diluting, filtering, testing etc.). but what do you mean that removing the nitric acid? Evaporate and fill it up with HCL?. im already have som powder from an another time. of course im just a rooky that is why im asking.
I still have no idea what are these cristalls were? removed, and melted. I got some weird black metal shiny thing, can be slicy magnetized...
In my country called natriumcarbonate. almost, but not baking soda(E500).I keep learning, learning, reading and asking;)
Where can i find this HCl/ NaCLO method?
could you recommend some step by step youtube links.
THX:Betty
 
ysebag,

Gold will not dissolve in HCL, but oxidized gold will form a gold salt with HCl (AuCl3).

Nitric acid will not dissolve gold, but it can Oxidize the gold, (probably forming a passivated layer of oxidized gold just a guess here).

When we add an oxidizer to the hydrochloric acid HCl, the oxidizer oxidizes the gold so that the HCl will form AuCl3 in solution.

Nitric acid is only one strong oxidizer that is strong enough to oxidize gold, household bleach like you wash clothes in to get them white (sodium hypochlorite) is another, the bleach form chlorine gas in solution when mixed in acids, it is this chlorine gas that oxidizes the gold.

Once gold is in solution (dissolved)we no longer need the oxidizer, in fact the oxidizer now will not let us get our gold back out of solution.

Oxidized means the atom has a loss of electrons, reduced means to gain of electrons.

When a gold atom lost its electron it is dissolved into solution, to get the gold back out of solution we must give it back all of its electrons so that it will fall out of solutions as many gold atoms (metal gold powder), as long as there is an oxidizer in solution like nitric acid we cannot give back the gold its electrons and make it into gold powder, because the nitric acid in solution keeps on taking the electrons away from the gold, so as long as there is an oxidizer like nitric acid or chlorine in solution we cannot reduce (give back electrons) our gold back to metal.

When dissolving gold several things can help to make things work better for when you are later trying to get your gold back out of solution.

Do not dissolve gold with base metals.
Keep tin out of solution with gold.
Use only the minimum amount of oxidizer needed to get the gold dissolved (using heat to help) and to also insure all of the oxidizer has reacted before adding more.

ysebag,

I can answer a few questions, but from reading what you have said, there is no way I can answer all of your questions, You have a lot to learn, I can help some, but for you to learn what you will need to know to be successful in this field you will need to study, You are very lucky it is all here on the forum, many have answered these many times, so just keep reading and soon you will find many answers, you will find answers to questions you did not even think of, you will also find many ideas of how to do things and what to look for when trying to find scrap, or very useful tools to make the work easier.

If all I did was answer your question I would cheat you out of finding many treasures (these treasures you will find in this forum).
Have you read the guide to the forum?
Have you visited Laser Steve’s web site?
Have you been studying HOKE’s book?
Have you studied the Forum?
If not you are missing the real treasure, it is not in that gold solution you have there now (that is only a tiny bit of value that you may not get if you do not understand how), the real treasure is found by studying and getting wisdom of how to recover and refine, this wisdom you will not get from someone answering a couple of questions, this understanding comes from hard work studying and practicing what you will learn.

And this forum has the goldmine of information just waiting for you to go in and get the treasure.

ysebag, all of the answers are there.
 
There is some great information here, however I think there is a problem with attitude. As I see it the problem we all have is obtaining the gold content of a specific CPU. This problem has two facets 1 assaying the CPU and 2 identifying the CPU . Quit clearly in this post we have experts in both fields.
How about one of our experts posting a list showing us how to correctly identify the CPUs and then any further expert analysis could be attributed to precise CPUs
In fact we could all post our results which like the poster says would give us an expected figure and if we had expert analysis that would give us a figure to aim for.

I think that would make great reading and a step forward in our processing efforts.
 
I group my cpus by yield, age, and appearance. Here's the overall groups I have:

  1. Very Old Purple/White CPUS and DIPs/SideBraze
  2. Math Coprocessors Class Gold Cover
    • Motorola 3/4" x 3/4" Gold Top
    • Intel mathco Gold Bottom
    • Oddball mathco Gold Bottom
  3. Intel Class 386
    • Motorola 1" x 1" Gold Top
    • Intel 386/Small 960 Gold Bottom
    • Oddball 386 Gold Bottom
  4. Intel Class 486
    • Motorola 1.25" x 1.25" Gold Top
    • Intel 486/ Large 960 Gold Bottom
    • Oddball 486 Gold Bottom (Ti, IBM, etc.)
    • Nortel/LSI 1.25" x 1.25" Gold Bottom
    • Phillips/LSI/Orion Gold Top and Bottom
  5. Intel Pentium I Class Gold Top & Bottom
    • Intel 75/60
    • DEC double post and single posts Gold Top and Bottom
    • AMD K5 Gold Top and Bottom
    • Winchip Gold Top and Bottom
  6. Intel Pentium I Class Ceramic Bottom
  7. AMD K5 Ceramic Bottom
  8. Intel 486 Class Ceramic Bottom
  9. AMD 386 Class Gold Bottom
  10. AMD 486 Class Gold Bottom
  11. IBM/Cyrix MMX Gold Top with Ceramic Bottom
  12. Ceramic DLP CPUs with glass
  13. Low Grade Newer Ceramic CPU
    • Ceramic Athlon/Duron
    • Ceramic AMD Aluminum Lid K5/K6
    • Intel Black Fiber MMX
    • Slotted Intel with Green Fiber CPU
  14. Very Low Grade CPUs
    • Pentium II & III Green Fiber CPU with Legs
    • Slotted Intel with Brown Epoxy CPU
    • Epoxy/Fiber AMD cpus
  15. Ultra Low Grade CPU
    • All Newer CPUs with and without legs

The list is not super granular, but includes most common types. I have not included north/south bridge or BGA cpus in the list.

Steve
 
samuel-a said:
Part -1

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ_R8Gr26kk[/youtube]


Part - 2

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv4CcaTVJqY[/youtube]

All comments, suggestions and questions are welcomed 8)

could i use muriatic acid instead of Hydrochloric acid ?
in my country hydrocholoric acid its controlled by the army, and i would need to be a certified quimic to buy it...
and in the internet (wikipedia) it says that both acid are the same BUT Hydrochloric acid has about 30~38% concentratred and muriatic acid has 10~12% only.

soo, could i use 3 times more of muriatic acid?
 
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