my first attempt

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Thats odd Palladium that colder weather works better for your solution of AP, because it seems like the warmer weather actually sped op the reation time of my AP solutions. Any thoughts on why we would have contradicting opinions on that? Just wondering.

BTW how can I respond to just one sentence of a post using the quotes like everyone else does? I have tried to do that many different ways but never able to make it work. Any help would be very appreciated and helpful.

Thanks Kenny
 
floppy said:
BTW how can I respond to just one sentence of a post using the quotes like everyone else does? I have tried to do that many different ways but never able to make it work. Any help would be very appreciated and helpful.
Thanks Kenny
Click to expand...

Just hit the quote button and use backspace button to edit out the unwanted text.
If you want to know how to answer multiple questions within a post separately, that is one I can't answer.

Jim
 
Geo said:
i believe that is stannic acid. could be a real problem for you. do a search in the search box for stannic acid.
Click to expand...

i have installed the air pump today, and after some hours all the white was sticked to the hose
 
Lotro, I would add a bit HCl. Your solution looks too clear. 2:1 ratio is a lot of water, I think you need more HCl, I could be wrong...
 
floppy said:
Thats odd Palladium that colder weather works better for your solution of AP, because it seems like the warmer weather actually sped op the reation time of my AP solutions. Any thoughts on why we would have contradicting opinions on that? Just wondering.


Thanks Kenny
Click to expand...

The acid peroxide method can be manipulated in several ways. One is warmer temperature. But with warmer temperature the solutions will hold less gas per volume of solution. The warmer the solution the less oxygen it will hold. We need oxygen to convert copper to copper oxide so the hcl can absorb it into solution. Hcl alone will not dissolve copper. So attack rate is tie to the amount of oxygen that we can get into a solution. Another important parameter is surface reaction kinetics. I use a 15 gallon poly drum with a removable lid. I use a Lottttt of air. This air is forced thru a 5 micron water filter sock mounted in the bottom of the drum. Above that i have a shelve built for what i call the man hole cover with holes drilled for a strainer effect where the materials rest upon. Think about the way we use 2- 5 gallon buckets for the ap process. I can only fill the drum about 1/3 full of solution because when i hit the air it's like a foam over effect. Imagine the surface reaction rates at this point. This leads to everything i need for controlling etch rate. With added heat you speed up reaction time true, but you also give up other parameters. Heat will also dissipate or break down your hcl which leads to vapours or off gassing meaning their goes part of your hcl that could have served a better purpose. More bang for your buck. Colder solutions hold their gases more stable. I'm manipulating parameters so to speak. This thing will eat some copper !!! Note: I didn’t build it for gold. It was meant for copper recovery with gold being secondary. This thing blows gold so fine it takes days to settle. But i did test my process for dissolved gold and i can say to date i haven't found enough evidence to support that i'm losing gold from it dissolving into solution. I do recover gold that looks like it was dissolved into solution and could have dropped from excess copper and air saturation. But it's always in the powder after settling or filtering, not in the solution.

This is a work in progress. :mrgreen:
 
Thank you for the detailed explanation. That is way more information than I knew about. I use my AP for gold(fingers) and I have processed close to 12 lbs of them in the same solution that I started with. 2qts. hcl and 1qt. peroxide, I have a bubbler in the solution at all times and have never had to add any hcl. However I have noticed that after about 6lbs. it started taking alot longer for the fingers to be stripped clean. When the solution was new it took just about 2 days, now many lbs. later it takes anywhere from 6 to 7 days. But I'm in no hurry, as long as it works its okay with me. But I do appreciate the new knowledge you have provided me with.
 
Besides air the other parameter that controls etch rate is the amount of free hcl in the solution. Now that your solution is saturated add about another quart to what you have and watch it go !!
 
Search the forum for my posts containing the keywords:

acid peroxide help

and

acid peroxide info

Steve
 
jimdoc said:
floppy said:
BTW how can I respond to just one sentence of a post using the quotes like everyone else does? I have tried to do that many different ways but never able to make it work. Any help would be very appreciated and helpful.
Thanks Kenny
Click to expand...

Just hit the quote button and use backspace button to edit out the unwanted text.
If you want to know how to answer multiple questions within a post separately, that is one I can't answer.

Jim
Click to expand...
That's simple. I'm going to use the code feature, which will allow what must be done to display without causing the function to exercise the command. When you post, you do NOT use the code function.

So then, here's all you must do. I'll use floppy's post as the examples.

Code: 
[quote="floppy"]BTW how can I respond to just one sentence of a post using the quotes like everyone else does?[/quote]

for the next quote, repeat:
Code: 
[quote]I have tried to do that many different ways but never able to make it work. Any help would be very appreciated and helpful.[/quote]

Note that on succeeding quotes, you don't have to repeat the original reference----you can simply type
instead of adding the name. Pay strict attention to every detail ---including quotation marks ----leaving out any fine detail causes the function to fail.

Again, the use of the Code function allows me to show you what to type. It is NOT a part of the instructions you should follow. Do NOT use the Code button for anything you hope to display as a quote.

Harold
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the information I requested about the quotes. That will be quite the useful ability.
 
up up,
after some days with air bubble the solution look really dark and i can see a lor of golden foils floating in the solution, now, if i'm not wrong the darken colors means that the solution is over/satured, but i have some other pins undissolved, what to do now? just wait o add some hcl?
 
when the solution turns brown and has the consistency of worcestershire sauce THEN it will be saturated. right now is when its doing a good job of dissolving copper. if you can keep the solution at that dark green level then you can re-use it over and over. after you run this batch and filter the solids out, put the solution back in the container and add the air bubbler for a day with nothing in it. then remove the air and let it sit another day. it should turn a dark green color from brown. dip or siphon off the green liquid to re-use and filter the settled metal out of the bottom, this should be copper. wash this powder with baking soda and water to neutralize the acid and rinse and dry for clean copper dust.
 
Geo said:
when the solution turns brown and has the consistency of worcestershire sauce THEN it will be saturated. right now is when its doing a good job of dissolving copper. if you can keep the solution at that dark green level then you can re-use it over and over. after you run this batch and filter the solids out, put the solution back in the container and add the air bubbler for a day with nothing in it. then remove the air and let it sit another day. it should turn a dark green color from brown. dip or siphon off the green liquid to re-use and filter the settled metal out of the bottom, this should be copper. wash this powder with baking soda and water to neutralize the acid and rinse and dry for clean copper dust.
Click to expand...

i can reuse it, wow really a good news thanks.
 
ok the dissolving is finished, i have filtered and got some gold foils and a gray powder, is the powder cemented gold or what?
 
something gone wrong, finished the 50g test, i have started with all the pins a i have, there are 280g of pins in 2lt oh hcl and 300/350 ml h2o2 but the solution does not turn green but yellow, really yellow

EDIT. after some minutes it turn yellow/green, i have lost some gold in the solution??
 
no you have not lost it. when you put an excess amount of h2o2 in your solution it dissolved some gold, but it is not lost when the solution becomes saturated with copper it will drop the gold out as a black powder into the bottom of your container. remember to add all the powder when you finish the reaction to your foils before you refine them.
 
Gold said:
What % was the H2O2 ?
Are you using an air bubbler to supply air ?
Click to expand...

its a 3% h2o2 and yes i use an air bubble.

Ps. the gray powder recovered with gold foils is gold?
 

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