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Hi Goldsilverpro,
Believe me when I say I haven't thrown anything away. I have a lot invested in this lot and am being very careful with it.

I have 2 coffee pots full of green solution sitting in cabinets, covered.

Yes, it took me a couple of days working on and off to prepare the gold for the refine. I did this in the house while watching the news. Drove my wife crazy with all the hammering. Had a big piece of plastic under the chair and in front of where I was working to catch all the pieces that got away from me from time to time. I spent a lot of time on my knees also.

I will get the book you offer on this process.

Thanks Goldsilverpro for your post and help with this.

Goldsilverpro, is the book the item that is offered on the GoldRecovery.US site/Lazersteve's in the Store? When I type in Goldsilverpro Book I end up there. I see the item being offered but am not sure if this is the book that has the process in it? The one offered on this site says it's the Gold Silverpro's Official Refining Guide. I have also read on the forum that there's a Ebook you offer. Which one of these has the process of (AR) refining of karat gold in it we are talking about?

Thanks Goldsilverpro, Oneal

goldsilverpro said:
Oneal,

My book does cover that process.

If you haven't thrown anything away, you still have all the gold and there is always a way to get it - Always! I'll help but I have to first absorb your posts. You write very well but, in the future, please break stuff into more paragraphs with spaces between them. To me, this is very important when you have a lot of details. On one long paragraph and no spaces, my eyes glaze over after about 8 lines. Need some white area.

The way you prepared that stuff, I will agree that 1.5 hours is very possible.
 
Hi Chris,
I just paid for the item. What happens next? Please take note that this Paypal account I used is in my wifes name. If you need the email address or any other personal information just send me a PM and I will respond.
Thanks, Oneal
 
Oneal. glad to see you back up and busy,and felling better.

I have Gold Silver Pro's book, it has an awful lot of good information in it, you should like it too.

I have been kind of busy lately.

I think many of us will learn, as GSP helps you with this lot.
 
Hi Butcher, it's really good to hear from you. I am glad to be up and around again and really thankful that I am still here. Butcher, It's 4:30 a.m. here and I am running on empty. But I just could not go to bed without saying It's really good to hear from you old buddy. I am not vearing off course here Butcher with this refine, I just think I need to try each and every one of the methods. I feel I will gain experience with each and every different one. I want to try the HCL/Cl and the AP Process next. I just feel I will be more rounded as a refinner if I have a somewhat limited knowledge on each method.
Call me crazy or just thick, but for some reason I seem to want to know how each different refining method works.
Well I got to call it for tonight, so good night Butcher, my friend.
Oneal
 
Hi Goldsilverpro,
I received your PDF Book. I have read some of the material pretaining to the (AR) Refine. I have read in the book that you used Nitric first to dissolve the base metals before you put the karat gold into the (AR).

I have probably goofed here because I put the Karat Gold straight into the (AR), no pre-treatment at all, just put the karat gold straight into the AR. Left in the (AR) untill all the gold had dissolved.

I didn't see in either books where you used the (AR) method without any pre-treatment?

I also have probably got excess Nitric in with the gold bearing green solution.

This is where I am at, 2 coffee pots full of the green solution with everything in it that was in the 10K and 14K gold. Other than what droped out of solution when I diluted and iced the solution down.

I guess what I am asking is where do I go from here. I misunderstood you to begin with. I didn't think you used a pre-Nitric Treatment of the Karat Gold?

I am really pleased with the information in the book, it's going to take me a while to absorb all the information that's in it.
From what I can gather my options are as follows. Any help here would be appreciated here.

1-Filter all solutions to remove silver and etc;, combine solutions.

2-Raise Ph with Urea dissolved in hot water then add to solution until foaming stops. When Urea is added bringing ph to at least 1.0.

3-Dissolve sodium metabisulfite in hot water and add slowly. With 2.5 ounces of gold expected I would use 2.5-3.0 ounces of metabisulfite.

4-When gold starts to drop, keep testing solution with stannous until solution test barron for gold.

5- Leave overnight at least for small gold particles to settle completely.

6-Pour off top portion of solution, filtering only the gold bearning last portion of solution.

7-Use Harold's Making Gold Pure Process to clean up the gold before melting.

This is what I have gathered so far. I am off base anywhere here please advise, it would be appreciated.

Thank you Goldsilverpro for any guidance. Oneal
 
Hi Goldsilverpro,
After the gold drop would I process the powder with nitric and then use the Making Gold Pure Process.
Thanks in advance for any guidance.
Oneal
 
Oneal58 said:
Hi Goldsilverpro,
After the gold drop would I process the powder with nitric and then use the Making Gold Pure Process.
Thanks in advance for any guidance.
Oneal
Once you have precipitated gold from a chloride solution, the use of nitric acid is not suggested. Unless you heat the gold to the point of eliminating all of the chlorides, you risk dissolving some of the gold when you add nitric, and that's even after rinsing the gold several times. It's nearly impossible to remove all of the acid, as you'll discover when you melt your gold. Fumes come off upon heating, even if you've dried the gold well. That's the nature of the beast.

That's not to say that washing with nitric can't be beneficial. It can be, but you're asking for unneeded complications when doing so. Stick to the HCl and ammonium hydroxide washes I discuss in the thread you mentioned. It works, and very well, and eliminates any worries of losing values from dissolution.

Harold
 
Thank You Harold for your post.
I am remaining in a holding pattern on this refine until I hear from Goldsilverpro. He had mentioned he would help me through this but he must have got tied up somehow. I hesitate to do anything with it (the solutions) fearing I could do something wrong.
As you just pointed out, losing values if I went with a Nitric treatment when it's not necessary. That's good important information to know. I sure wouldn't want to lose any values on this refine, I didn't find (buy) this karat lot at an auction as I did my gold filled, plated, rolled, Etc;, that I have been refining. So it will hit my pocket book pretty hard if I mess this refine up.
So, I will just sit tight on this refine and read Goldsilverpro's Books he sent while waiting to hear from him. There's a lot of information in those books to digest.
I (kind of) know what to do Harold, but just like the Nitric treatment, if I hadn't of asked and you answered I would have lost values. So, kind of knowing, just isn't good enough.
That's why this site is so important, well the members are so important. I would have made a mess more times than I have if it hadn't of been for Butcher, you and others. It seemed everytime I didn't ask someone to hold my hand through a process, I would goof it up.
I must say though, Butcher has held my hand through most all of this from the beginning. It was the times that I didn't want to bother him is the times I made a mess of things. He has spent so much time with me, I feel guilty sometimes asking him for help. I must make myself understand that the member's are here to help newbie's like myself. Or they would not offer the help. I am just not familiar with getting something for nothing, as a gift, and have a hard time with asking someone for help. I don't know why, it's just the way I am?
I have been trying my hand at refining since the last of Nov., I think. I know I have a long, long way to go. If I can keep my old body up and going, hopefully in a year or two I will not have to bug anyone, as much. Then finally be able to start to return some of what I have been given. Hopefully to be able to maybe answer a question for someone like myself, with confidence.
Thank you Harold for the information and taking time to post, I appreciate it.
Oneal
 
Hi Butcher, I guess GSP has got tied up somewhere.
While I am waiting I have a couple of questions I hope you can help me with.

I have accumulated maybe 45-50 gallons of spent Nitic soution sitting around. Some of this solution is when I first started as you know. I am sure I have some gold in there, silver that I couldn't get to drop and other things as well. When I first started I did make a mess of things for a while. The Spent Nitric looks to be starting to rust? Has a yellowish rusty sludge on the bottom of the drum? I can scrap down to the bottom and bring up the yellow looking material that looks sort of rusty?

I was wondering what's the best way to go about recovering these metals in the Spent Nitric Solution. I have read that I can take angle Iron and put into the spent Nitric, but it acts like bird shot though and gets everything?

How would you go about getting the metals from this spent Nitric solution? I have no way of distiling a container this large and the only way I could do this is take maybe 1/2 gallon out at a time and distil down. That would take forever though.

I have all my HCL and Sulphuric as well saved. I thought I would just distill these 2 back down and reuse them. I have metals in the bottom of the HCL and Sulphuric. The metals in the HCL looks like silver but I am sure there are other metals in there as well.

In the sulphuric there is some gold that has settled out from the time I was running the sulphuric cell. I am going to try and get this gold and I thought I would just distill the sulphuric back down and reuse it as well.

I don't have nearly as much HCL and Sulphuric as I do the Nitric Solution.

I know you are the pro when it comes to recycling solutions
I would appreciate any directions and pointers you could give me Butcher to get these metals back out of these solutions. I know I have went through pounds and pounds of copper when I first began. Using way too much Nitric to begin with. All that copper is locked up in the Nitric solutions. I believe I have some gold in them as well. Well I know I have some gold in them from mistakes that I made at the beginning.

I don't want the solutions to get any farther ahead of me and would like to get the ones I can resue back to usable condition and dispose of the ones that I can't recycle but recover the metals first.

I forgot to mention all the sodium metabisulfite and ferrous sulphate solutions I have saved after my gold drops also?
Thank you Butcher for any help you could give me on this.

I realize this is a huge question but I would really appreciate your help on this if you have time.
Thank you so much Butcher,
Oneal
 
Oneal, there are several ways to recycle your waste, much depends on how you collect the waste, if you have kept the nitric acid waste separate from chlorides, it would not have chloride involved, if you added chlorides then that should be considered if reusing the waste.

The 50 gallons of nitric is a large volume to have around, my guess is it is a dilute solution, the mud in the bottom of the storage vessel has a high potential of being valuable, leave this mud undisturbed.

What I am saying here next you will have to determine if the solution had added chlorides, and if so and solutions you get from this later should be tested for gold or other values.

One way is reuse this dilute solution concentrating it (for less waste to have to treat), and get some work done with it at same time.

Decant the solution and add to crock pot, add gold plated pins or other materials you wish to remove base metals (if the contain copper it will work, and will work better is base metals are above copper in the series of metals), put crock pot on low heat, this will concentrate solution and dissolve some base metals as the solution concentrates, cover pot, to keep out, rain and snow and dirt, also keep out of reach of children or pets, this is done outside as it will fume off some gases but mainly water at first, let this evaporate, and depending if the nitric had free nitric acid can determine how far you can let this evaporate (if too high of nitric acid content on evaporation it is possible for a boil-over if excess acid and greater than 68% concentration, and heat is too high), with low heat and not letting concentrate too far you should not have trouble with boil-over from the solution, every day check on it add some more of the used nitric as it evaporates off, let this dissolve the base metals, (if powder form let them, but after they build up you remove powders to a selling jar, also when solution gets very concentrated move it to this settling jar, (this could be a gallon jar, that after letting settle the concentrated solution from this selling jar decanted to 5gallon pail), when you get to the bottom of the 55 gallon drum you can add your powders to the settling jar, now you have 5 gallons of concentrated copper nitrate solution and some copper powder that can have values, these powders can be cleaned up with fresh acids, and the 5gallons of concentrated solution still has use, (you could use it as an electrolyte, or crystallize to salts and get some nitric from it or just cement the copper and other metals with iron and treat it for waste).

Chloride solutions you can treat similar, but also if you added a chemical or reagent to them like SMB or sodium sulfite or like ferrous sulfate the can form sulfate salts when concentrating, as the HCl fumes from these either make metal chloride salts or vaporize off in the evaporation process. So if your chloride solution does not contain sulfate’s you can use it like copper II chloride, or you can use it to dissolve copper in heated crock pot letting it get very thick and dissolving copper to powders, these powders again settled to be cleaned up later, this lowers the volume of waste to treat (concentrating it), and gets some use out of it at the same time,

now these copper powders with some gold or gold flakes can be used in a new stock pot, as you refine add you solutions to them it will clean these powders up this way you do not have to waste new acids to clean them up, and the solution if values involved will replace the copper (or other base metal from these powders), your now solutions will be more concentrated as the pick up as much metal as they can from these powders……


As far as sulfates solutions these are still useful, even if they have some chlorides, as they can also dissolve base metals, and as they concentrate with metals, the HCl can be driven from them (as chloride metal salts, or fumes), and as you go you can remove the chloride salts, and eventually you will end up with sulfate metals salts, ferrous sulfate can be made this way or copper sulfate, again useful items in refining.

Some principles need to be understood doing this, like what the salts look like, so you have an idea as to which ones your making, these salts can also be re-crystallized for higher purity, also understanding what gases and acids leave the solutions first and which ones may not leave the solution is also important, also what temperatures or conditions these leave your solutions, or form metal salts.

Water is more volatile than nitric so it leaves first, then nitric, then chlorides, and sulfates will not leave unless temperature is extremely hot and salts are roasted,

So from this you can see if you had a mixture of all of these the end product would be a sulfate salt. (But the solution could be making salts of other metals as it was evaporating from this soup).

I will stop here as this is getting long and it gives you plenty to consider for now.
Hope I wrote this where it is understandable.
 
Hi Butcher, thank you for your post. I really appreciate it!
Butcher I have to admit that the Nitric soutions contain chlorides. At first I put some of my HCL in by mistake. I also have been making my home made Nitric from Potassium Nitrates and the solution contains a lot of sodium metabisulfie, and a little ferrous sulfate. Also, when I would open the container to decant into it I would get a rise of Nitric Brown fumes so I added Urea untill this stop happening, I added a lot of Urea, I just got tired of smelling it.
To be completely honest with you, at first I put a little of everything in there. I also played around with the Ammonia Nitrate once and I have read that this will form Chlorides when exposed to certain metals as HCL does? So, I have a buffet of chemicals that to be honest with you I would love to get to a point of just getting it out the building where I am working.
Do you think I will be OK to distil this solution down with all these chemicals in it, safely? Surely some where that the children, our pets or unsuspecting people would not be for sure.
From what I am reading of your post I can expect a lot of salts from this distilled solution.
So, where do I start?
Do I just get a crock pot and starting distilling and when the salts form let you know the color and crystal form and have you direct me from there. I sure don't know how to recognize the different salts yet.
I had a large heavy piece of what I thought was 900 parts silver. I thought that Nitric would dissolve this silver (at first) when I started refining and put it into a jar and added 70% Nitric with just a little water to get reaction started. I put this on the back porch of the house and forgot about it. I opened it up the other day thinking I would try and recover the silver which was maybe 240 grams. To my surpirse there are beautiful blue salts crystal all in the bottom of the container the silver was in. Formed around a little of the metal that didn't dissolve. Most, if not all the silver is gone, the metal that the crystals are growing on looks more like tin or zinc than silver. These salt crystals remind me of the Ferrous Sulfate I have, looks just like them?
So, do I get started by starting up the crock pot and just keep you informed of my progress and the new situations that arise as I take on this project?
I know this is going to be a long drawn out project, but it has to be done for the experience of it as well as keeping the chemicals out of the enviorment. I sure would not dump them on this farm or any place else, I love my deer, coons, rabbits, Etc;, too much to do that to them.
Thanks so much Butcher.
Oneal
 
Oneal,
First thing to do is to read 4Metals post on dealing with waste, in the safety section, use his advice.

In your case of the soup, I would not try and reuse solution, in this case I would hang a piece of clean copper into the barrel, leave it there until it no longer reacts, you can brush it into a jar if it forms a black crust, and re-hang it inside solution, this will cement anything lower in reactivity series than copper (valuable metals) if the solution is at least slightly acidic (If the copper does not react check pH and make solution slightly acidic with some H2SO4 or other acid), or if it is too acidic already and the copper dissolves then hang in another piece of copper, until no more copper dissolves and when reaction is complete some copper bar is left, I would start with not too large a piece of cut and flattened out a copper pipe. Punch a hole to wire a solid copper wire to hang it with,(what I would try is a copper that might fit in a quart jar say a 1 1/2" copper pipe 6" long, so that if it does not dissolve you can use it for other cementing jobs, cut it length wise, large tin snips or hack saw, and unroll pipe and flatten it out, sand it off clean), hang in barrel, once all of the copper has cemented all it will (if it will),

Then decant solution to another barrel, do not disturb settled powders (very likely valuable metals) save the powders in jar for processing later, mark jar as to contents.

The solution you can then hang in a piece of steel.

Or a faster method is a piece of steel for an anode (+), an old piece of flat computer case steel no paint.

And a piece of non-magnetic stainless steel, for a cathode, I would also do this in 5 gallon bucket.
Large pieces of metals to fit bucket and give large flat surface area.

Take a battery charger I would use the 6volt scale. And an old truck 12volt head light, then wire this bulb in series with the 5gallon electrolytic sell.

Red positive of battery charger (+) to ------wire-----to light bulb one terminal of =(“O”)= other terminal of light bulb-------wire----to anode of cell (steel).

Then the black negative of terminal of the battery charger, wire it to the cathode (stainless steel plate).

The light will limit the current and also gases formed, it will also give an indication of the operation of the cell, (it gives me light when working at night), and it will drop some voltage to the cell, now the cell will change resistance as conditions change, this can be seen by how bright the lamp is, this light bulb also protects your power supply (battery charge) if the two plates or the cell shorts out (the light just gets bright).

Hang the two pieces of metal in bucket, up off of the bottom as copper powder that will fall to bottom of bucket would otherwise short them out, keep the anode and cathode from touching (on opposite sides inside of the bucket), the steel (iron will dissolve into solution, and the copper will plate as a mossy copper powder onto stainless steel (some copper will fluff off into bottom of bucket),

This copper can be scrapped of the stainless into a pail I would keep the copper powder covered with a some-what acidic solution so copper does not oxidize in the air).

When all of the copper has been removed from solution, remove plates and turn off charger, let the bucket settle and decant solution to another five gallon bucket, put the copper powders in the jar with other copper powders mark this jar copper.

This Iron solution needs to be brought up (slowly) to about 9 pH, you can use sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner, or sodium carbonate (soda ash) automatic dishwashing soap, or screened hard wood stove ashes, or even baking soda, or garden lime, bringing up the will precipitate most all of the metals (too high of a pH will start to dissolve some of them back into solution), when solution gets closer to the right it will start to look clear (salt water), after powders settle well, sometimes I use Epsom salts to finish clearing the solution (you want clear salt water to dispose of, some time I may need to adjust ph with acid, or more caustic base) after powders settle decant clear solution to jugs for disposal (if you have a septic do not put it there as too much salt can kill your septic tanks bacteria),

The metal powders need to be dried well, flat trays in the sun, some lime and cat liter can help some, once dry the powder oxides can be disposed of.

Please read 4Metals post, as I worked all day and this late at night I most likely left out some important detail.

Have a good night
ole friend take care.

Oh yea the blue crystals could be copper sulfate.
 
Hi Butcher, thank you so much for your post.
Believe it or not I understand each and every part of your instructions? No problems that I can see right now to get this done. I will need to start on this next week though.
I have an Uncle who I am very close to, the only Uncle I really ever got close to who treated me like a nephew. He is failing fast (Lung Cancer), his wife called and said if I wanted to see him again I need to hurry up there. He Lives in Johnson City, Tn. I leave tomorrow morning to go up to his place. He is not doing well at all and Aunt Cathy has called the family in to him.
I have been really busy the last couple of days trying to get lined up to leave. I think I will be staying through Monday, unless something comes up unexpected.
Butcher I wanted to touch base with you before I left. It will probably be Tuesday before you hear from me again. I just want to say thank you Butcher for all your help and always being there for me.
I went ahead with the refine that I was holding off until I heard from GSP. I have a couple of questions on this refine but they will wait until I get back from Tn. I am hoping that GSP is OK. I don't know why I haven't heard from him?
But I studied and read all I could find on the process and went ahead with it. I ended up with nearly 4 grams missing/disappearing. The sodium metabisulfite I used to drop with tested negative with stannous. I know that the stannous is good because I have a test solution of gold I use to verify it each time. I have double checked my figures and they are right, but 4 grams of the gold went somewhere? I figured up what I should have had before the refine and tested each piece and the Karat's on each and every piece? What I should have had and what I ended up with was 4 grams short. I still haven't figured out what happened, I don't think I ever will?
But I got to get some work finished up over at the old house tonight.
Thank you again Butcher, I will get in touch with you when I get back from Tn.. It's about a 6 hour drive from here so I plan to leave around 9:00 a.m. and take my time going. Just want to miss that Charlotte, N.C. traffic from around 4:00 through about 6:30. Hit it wrong and it has taken me 1-1/2 hours before just to get across Charlotte.
But anyway, I will see and talk to you when I get back.
Thank you my friend,
Oneal
 
Hi Butcher, Everyone.
I have finally made it back home, again! I got home the first time and found out I had left my firearm I carry with me while I am on the road. My Uncle advised me to carry it anyway, he said something about someone who was killing people with an ax or something in Tn.
But to make a long story short I ended up having to make the trip again to retrieve my weapon. When I got to Tn. the second time, I ended up with a stomach virus that had me in the bathroom every few minutes so I had to wait until my stomach settled before I could get back on the road to come home.
But anyway, I am going to start on the recovery and processing of my waste solutions next week Butcher. I am sure I will have plenty of questions. I just wanted to give you a heads up and say Hey.
It sure is good to be sleeping in my bed again.
Talk to you next week Butcher, I hope you and family have been doing well.
Oneal
 
Hi Butcher old Buddy.
Sorry to keep you hanging so long but a new developement came up and I have been very busy with that. I had to put the solution recovery we discussed on hold for a while to try and make a few dollars.
But to make a long story short, I had a person who collected only gold plated items for years and wanted me to recover the gold from the gold plated for him. He had some high quality gold plated and I expected good returns form the cell.
It was quiet a large lot and I have been working on it since I got back from the trips to Tn.
I used the sulphuric celll to strip all the gold plated and was really impressed with the amount of powder I ended up with. Shorted the cell out one time and had to make another run on the plated items. Put everything together and I rinsed the powder many times in hot water boils/settle and decanted untill decant was clear.
I then decided to use the Hydrochloric/Chlorox method to recover the values. This part of the process went perfectly resulting in a deep beautiful yellow liquid that I was really impressed with. I was only left with some white soluable salt in the bottom of the container. I let the solution set up open for a couple of days for the chlorox to precipitate out so I would have no trouble with it.
I then added my sodium metabisulfite and watched as the solution turned a clean color indicating to me that I would soon be seeing the brown gold swirrling around next in the containter. I added another bit of sodium metabisulfite and nothing happened, added a little more nothing happened.
Getting concerning I pulled a small amount of solution out of the main container and added a good bit of sodium metabisulfite, nothing happened? No gold drop.
I am stuck here, I have a container which I know is full of gold (tested positive/fresh stannous) but cannot get it to drop with SMB.
Butcher, do you have any ideas on what has happened to this refine? I just bought this container of Stump Out the other day so I feel it is fresh.
Thank you Butcher for any help you could give me on this. The gentleman is comming around nearly every other day wanting to know how it's going with the gold filled. I am really worried about this now and I don't know what in the world I am going to tell him next? The truth is what I must tell him but he isn't going to like that, neither would I!
Thank You Butcher for any advice you could give me. Oneal
 
I’m not Butcher, but it seems you need help yesterday. Since you tested with stannous and you know the gold is there but not precipitating when you add SMB, I would guess that you still have free Cl gas in your solution. Take a couple hundred mL sample of your gold solution that you have added SMB to and put it on a hot plate taking it up close to a boil but not quite. You should see gold start coming out of solution.
 
He mentioned some salts from the hcl Clorox process which might mean he has not diluted it enough also. After you heat it if you see any more salts which you probably will try diluting with water before you drop and see if that helps.
 

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