PLEASE I NEED HELP ITS REALY S.O.S

[artart47]

Hi Alon!
Reading what my friends here have written, there is no mask for nitric fumes. Two things you can do!
1. You have your beakers/flasks inside a fume-hood box. Fans suction air out the top and make the nitric fumes move away from you.
2. You work outside so that the air is moving FROM your right or left, it moves across in front of you and takes the fumes away.
Also! What I was thinking is that if you want to just collect your gold as a powder. Then just put it away for a time. You will then download "Hoke's book" find a friend who reads English to help you study the things she teaches, do the experiments in her book and keep studying our forum until you receive the understanding the you must have to do this refining. Then you can refine your gold powder and if you have a problem we can help you and you will understand.

A way to drop the gold powder. It is called "cementing on copper" search for it in our search box.
Find thick pieces of copper. like the long bars that are inside the box where the electricity comes into your home. Or large copper pipe that you cut along one side then open it until you can hammer it and make it flat.
Put the copper pieces in the solution with the gold. the acid will attack the copper until all of the acid is gone. then the copper will replace the gold and the gold will turn back to metal. It won't look like gold. it will be black powder and it will form on the surface of the copper. It will fall off the copper and collect in the bottom of the beaker.
SEARCH BOX " decanting" "testing for gold" Study until you know exactly what you are doing and why you do it.
your gold will be waiting for you!
art.

 

[ALON 1969]

Hi Alon!
Reading what my friends here have written, there is no mask for nitric fumes. Two things you can do!
1. You have your beakers/flasks inside a fume-hood box. Fans suction air out the top and make the nitric fumes move away from you.
2. You work outside so that the air is moving FROM your right or left, it moves across in front of you and takes the fumes away.
Also! What I was thinking is that if you want to just collect your gold as a powder. Then just put it away for a time. You will then download "Hoke's book" find a friend who reads English to help you study the things she teaches, do the experiments in her book and keep studying our forum until you receive the understanding the you must have to do this refining. Then you can refine your gold powder and if you have a problem we can help you and you will understand.

A way to drop the gold powder. It is called "cementing on copper" search for it in our search box.
Find thick pieces of copper. like the long bars that are inside the box where the electricity comes into your home. Or large copper pipe that you cut along one side then open it until you can hammer it and make it flat.
Put the copper pieces in the solution with the gold. the acid will attack the copper until all of the acid is gone. then the copper will replace the gold and the gold will turn back to metal. It won't look like gold. it will be black powder and it will form on the surface of the copper. It will fall off the copper and collect in the bottom of the beaker.
SEARCH BOX " decanting" "testing for gold" Study until you know exactly what you are doing and why you do it.
your gold will be waiting for you!
art.

thank you dear art..i start already the evaporated process thats all the friend here recomended me to do that...i start the evaporated 6huer ago and the solution back to nice yelow color from dark orang..now i turn off the medum heat and ill start it again tomorow morning..its 3.15 Am in israel now...thanks and good night dear art..

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

thank you very much dear friend..if i added already about 25-30ml of sulfuric acid when the first A.R wass cool i have to add some mor?

I would think that is enough sulfuric, assuming that there was no lead that got pulled into solution with your gold. And, even if the solution was cool when you added the sulfuric, I'm sure it probably warmed up quite a bit... Sulfurix acid has a GREAT affinity for water. If there is water around, sulfuric will gobble it up...even the water in your skin, so tread carefully, and don't spill a drop.

You say your solution went from orange to yellow.

How thick is it now?

I am going to assume that it is not very thick at all, and probably wont be until the volume has gone down SIGNIFICANTLY. If i recall correctly, you had 1,200 ml of AR for about 5 grams of gold.

You will most likely need to evaporate down to 100-200 ml or less before it even begins to thicken up like syrup. When you add the HCl, don't add a litre, just enough to expell the nitric fumes and thin the syrup.

If you add a litre each time, you will have to evaporate a week's time to get the nitric out of your solution.

It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.

If this field is something that interests you, AFTER you get to a good stopping point on this project, and AFTER reading hoke, you should research these things-
-HCl/Bleach to dissolve gold (works well with foils and refined (powder) gold, and much much easier to get to precipitation
-sulfamic acid
-Stannous Chloride (it is the eyes of the refiner)
-cementing on copper
-"the stock pot"
-"dealing with waste"
-"situations to avoid"
-"build a fume hood"

The ones in quotes are the names of threads on this forum (maybe not the exact name, but close)

Go to google. In the search box type "site:www.goldrefiningforum.com xxxxxxxxx"(don't type the quotes, and replace the xxxxxx with whatever you are wanting to research)

These subjects (and Hoke's book ESPECIALLY) will have you well on your way to becoming a beginner... A beginner with adequate knowledge to maybe try a refining session or two.

But, fret not friend, we all (almost all anyways) made the same mistakes (not exactly THIS mistake, but close) in one way or another...but in the end, we all found our way here, and the forum is a great place.

Refiners helping refiners-
But, I must add, that -we can and will- only be able to help you so much. As there is no way possible to fully describe in detail how to refine in just a few short sentences. It takes a great deal of study, patience, and perseverance. And only you can take the initiative to find the knowledge you seek.

Best of luck to you friend... Now be safe, and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[g_axelsson]

It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.

Not a good advice when there is such a large excess of nitric. For a liter of excess AR he would need a quarter of a kilo gold button to consume all nitric.
It's great when you have added a bit too much nitric, but not this much. Even adding 100 grams of gold in this case wouldn't change the situation very much.

Göran

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.

Not a good advice when there is such a large excess of nitric. For a liter of excess AR he would need a quarter of a kilo gold button to consume all nitric.
It's great when you have added a bit too much nitric, but not this much. Even adding 100 grams of gold in this case wouldn't change the situation very much.

Göran

I was meaning to put on the second or third evaporation cycle.


Which, brings me to a question.

How much nitric can be exhausted in a single evaporation cycle.
Will he have to evaporate more than 3 times?
Or is it more like:
-first evaporation removes half of nitric in solution, second evaporation removes half of the half, and third evaporation rids the remainder?

-topher, the spoon-fed

 

[butcher]

The first evaporation can eliminate most all of the nitric acid. But (there is always those buts).

Water will mostly evaporate first as it is more volatile, then nitric acid as the solution concentrates, then HCl acid as we get much more concentrated, sulfuric acid helps as it is not very volatile and takes pretty high temperatures to distill off H2SO4, so even if by accident we drive off all of the free HCl (or even go so far as to begin to drive off chlorides from the gold salts), this is where it helps to have added some H2SO4, to keep us from cooking the gold solution to more dryer salts by over evaporation by mistake. We do not remove each of these as pure gases as in some stages of evaporation these come of mixed during portions of the evaporation process.

Let’s say you start with just water at room temperature (approximately 70°F) and want to boil it. You turn on the stove, which proceeds to add heat to the water, adding heat to it as energy, increasing the waters temperature one degree at a time until the water reaches the boiling point of water @ 212°F (sea level, open atmosphere...). the temperature of the water will maintain 212 degrees (no matter how much more fire you put under the pot). It’s still just water at this point, some evaporation can occur, but we are not driving the water off as steam or gas yet . Although the added heat is increasingly the heat added to the hot water.
Once at 212°, the water begins to boil off as gas. You may have never thought about it before, but once it’s boiling, the water is essentially constant at 212° because it takes a lot of heat to convert all of the water into gas even after the average temperature in the pot has reached the boiling point, the temperature of the solution will not change until we reach the boiling point of water.

Lets say we just have dilute nitric acid, we would evaporate mainly water at first the nitric would concentrate, as we evaporated off or distilled off mostly water (first), the temperature of solution would not rise until the solution reached the boiling point for that concentration (no matter how much fire we put under the pot) as we concentrate the boiling points change... the different substances like H2O, HNO3, HCl, H2SO4 each have different boiling points, (and each have different boiling points for the different concentrations with water...).

well I think I am getting off subject rambling on, back to the subject.

Most of the nitric acid can be removed with the first concentration. taking the solution down to almost pure azeotropic HCl or gold chloride, impurity's of other metals like sodium, copper, or other metals can form nitrate salts, which when concentrated enough can crystalize out of solution.
We know adding acid to these salts can make nitric acid (or re-make nitric acid in this case) as the nitrate salt takes on the hydrogen of hydronium ions...

This is where you may evaporated the solution down the first time, concentrating these salts, and we can see the red cloud when adding a little bit of HCl (note the HCl is about 80 percent water), so it is also adding water back to the concentrated solution we will need to evaporate back off to get to the point we were at before we added the HCl, converting the salts back to nitric, then driving off water and concentrating the nitric to its boiling point again to drive off or to distill off this small amount of newly created nitric in solution, with further evaporation...

How many evaporation's will it take? Heck I do not know, but I think it may depend on how pure your gold solution is (where nitrate salts are less likely to form), or How close to evaporating most all of the acids from the salts, and cooking of nitrates (which is not our goal). Or how much nitric HCl or even H2SO4 was involved and probably a dozen or more other variables...

One evaporation may work, two may be needed, three is normally enough to get the job done. You may need more for dirty contaminated solutions full of copper or other metals that can easily form nitrate salts...
The thing is the first evaporation takes the longest to get rid of most of the solution and get it concentrated, the small additions of HCl do not add much volume and so the second and third evaporation go quickly from this point...

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Excellent information Butcher.

And so elegantly put, I admire your thoroughness and how pedantic you are with the information you share with everyone.

ALON, take great notes, and study up on the english language. You will do well here. There are a bunch of members who have given you an abundance of help and elaboration on what steps to take.

Some new members that come to the forum with themselves in a predicament, don't get such a warm welcome. Whether its because they are demanding answers, or refuse to study-wanting to be spoon fed, or don't like what answers they do get-and then fish for another one-then do everything opposite that has been advised to them. They just don't get received well, usually on their own behalf...because every member here is helpful, but especially so to those who can show that they can help themselves to at least some degree.

I have a good feeling that you will do well here and in your refining adventure. There are a GREAT many members here that did not have english as their mother language, and, in part from this forum (and their hard work, and study), they are VERY fluent now.

Keep us informed of your progress.

Butcher, again, many thanks to you for all you do and share.

-topher, the thankful

 

[ALON 1969]

thank you very much dear friend..if i added already about 25-30ml of sulfuric acid when the first A.R wass cool i have to add some mor?

I would think that is enough sulfuric, assuming that there was no lead that got pulled into solution with your gold. And, even if the solution was cool when you added the sulfuric, I'm sure it probably warmed up quite a bit... Sulfurix acid has a GREAT affinity for water. If there is water around, sulfuric will gobble it up...even the water in your skin, so tread carefully, and don't spill a drop.

You say your solution went from orange to yellow.

How thick is it now?

I am going to assume that it is not very thick at all, and probably wont be until the volume has gone down SIGNIFICANTLY. If i recall correctly, you had 1,200 ml of AR for about 5 grams of gold.

You will most likely need to evaporate down to 100-200 ml or less before it even begins to thicken up like syrup. When you add the HCl, don't add a litre, just enough to expell the nitric fumes and thin the syrup.

If you add a litre each time, you will have to evaporate a week's time to get the nitric out of your solution.

It would be a great benefit to you, to add a button of refined gold to your solution while evaporating. It will help remove the nitric fumes by consuming the gold.

If this field is something that interests you, AFTER you get to a good stopping point on this project, and AFTER reading hoke, you should research these things-
-HCl/Bleach to dissolve gold (works well with foils and refined (powder) gold, and much much easier to get to precipitation
-sulfamic acid
-Stannous Chloride (it is the eyes of the refiner)
-cementing on copper
-"the stock pot"
-"dealing with waste"
-"situations to avoid"
-"build a fume hood"

The ones in quotes are the names of threads on this forum (maybe not the exact name, but close)

Go to google. In the search box type "site:www.goldrefiningforum.com xxxxxxxxx"(don't type the quotes, and replace the xxxxxx with whatever you are wanting to research)

These subjects (and Hoke's book ESPECIALLY) will have you well on your way to becoming a beginner... A beginner with adequate knowledge to maybe try a refining session or two.

But, fret not friend, we all (almost all anyways) made the same mistakes (not exactly THIS mistake, but close) in one way or another...but in the end, we all found our way here, and the forum is a great place.

Refiners helping refiners-
But, I must add, that -we can and will- only be able to help you so much. As there is no way possible to fully describe in detail how to refine in just a few short sentences. It takes a great deal of study, patience, and perseverance. And only you can take the initiative to find the knowledge you seek.

Best of luck to you friend... Now be safe, and keep us posted on your progress.

lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day

Don't mention it!

Anything I can do to help (so long as it's something I know)

So long as you dont have close neighbors, or anything metal that will be destroyed (which, would, most likely be there at night too?) you can evaporate during the day.

Doing it during the day may even be more beneficial because of the increase in ambient temperature. That, and the fact that nitric decomposes in sunlight (at low concentration Im not sure how much it would help, but you still don't have to evaporate solely at night.-but, you would know if it's plausible much better than me...after all, it's your neighborhood)

I work during the day as often as I can. I also work at night as often as I can. Right now its 4:30 am here, and I will probably be evaporating my solution for a couple more hours myself.

Oh the joys of refining :mrgreen:

-topher, the tireless

 

[ALON 1969]

lot of thanks to you dear friend..i start with 1200 ml now after 6 hours left to me like 100 ml of solution..i did not get yet the fume hood so i work only at evening becous it to hot outside and i dont know if i can work with the A.R and evaporate at sun lihte..ill be happy to know this answer..lot of thanks dear friend you helpd me lot and im thankful for that..have a nice day

Don't mention it!

Anything I can do to help (so long as it's something I know)

So long as you dont have close neighbors, or anything metal that will be destroyed (which, would, most likely be there at night too?) you can evaporate during the day.

Doing it during the day may even be more beneficial because of the increase in ambient temperature. That, and the fact that nitric decomposes in sunlight (at low concentration Im not sure how much it would help, but you still don't have to evaporate solely at night.-but, you would know if it's plausible much better than me...after all, it's your neighborhood)

I work during the day as often as I can. I also work at night as often as I can. Right now its 4:30 am here, and I will probably be evaporating my solution for a couple more hours myself.

Oh the joys of refining :mrgreen:

-topher, the tireless

hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon

Don't worry about it, I am indebted to this forum for the endless amount of help and knowledge I have received, and continue to absorb... Learning should never stop, it keeps going. Rolling along like a snowball going downhill gaining more and more snow. (bad analogy, but I'm going on 2 hours of sleep...my kids are staying with their grandma right now, so I had to seize the opportunity to work and build up my gold stash and labspace)

I am quite new to the forum, and refining in general. Having only refined a total of 41.3 grams so far in about a years time, but, I have read Hoke and feel now I can actually begin to give back to the forum. That book, to me, is my bible (along with the good threads in this forum), for the words contained in them have surely saved me. So, I'm just trying to spread the good word.

Alon, I can understand your english fine, as grammatically it is pretty well spot-on. The spelling is the only issue with it (like I can talk, my phone has a mind of its own as far as when it does or doesn't autocorrect..) To me, it's fine, as i have spoke english my entire life...the only issue that may arise, is from other non-native-english speakers, who are trying to use google translate or another program like that. It may not be able to find or correct the words you are trying to relay. It will come to you though. With practice, patience, and persistent study you will be good...damn good.. Then, if refining doesn't suit you as a profession (just a part time hobby or..?), you could always get paid to be a translator! Win-win!

Have a good wrap-up to your weekend. Be safe, and thorough.

Until we speak again.

-topher

 

[ALON 1969]

hello dear friend topher..i told you that left me 100 ml it wass ny mistake left me 1000ml..1 liter of solution..im realy thankfull to you! im doing exectly what you told me to do..if ill have any isuss or problem or gods know with my process ill post you soon as posibal..i hope you understand my bad english..sorry for that..and again lot of thanks to you dear friend and thanks to al the friends are helped me..im happy that i found this forum with very nice persons that help echother..have a nice day and nice weekend..god bless you as well.....Alon

Don't worry about it, I am indebted to this forum for the endless amount of help and knowledge I have received, and continue to absorb... Learning should never stop, it keeps going. Rolling along like a snowball going downhill gaining more and more snow. (bad analogy, but I'm going on 2 hours of sleep...my kids are staying with their grandma right now, so I had to seize the opportunity to work and build up my gold stash and labspace)

I am quite new to the forum, and refining in general. Having only refined a total of 41.3 grams so far in about a years time, but, I have read Hoke and feel now I can actually begin to give back to the forum. That book, to me, is my bible (along with the good threads in this forum), for the words contained in them have surely saved me. So, I'm just trying to spread the good word.

Alon, I can understand your english fine, as grammatically it is pretty well spot-on. The spelling is the only issue with it (like I can talk, my phone has a mind of its own as far as when it does or doesn't autocorrect..) To me, it's fine, as i have spoke english my entire life...the only issue that may arise, is from other non-native-english speakers, who are trying to use google translate or another program like that. It may not be able to find or correct the words you are trying to relay. It will come to you though. With practice, patience, and persistent study you will be good...damn good.. Then, if refining doesn't suit you as a profession (just a part time hobby or..?), you could always get paid to be a translator! Win-win!

Have a good wrap-up to your weekend. Be safe, and thorough.

Until we speak again.

-topher

thanks dear friend for your worm word..i hope to be good inaf to help another members on this forum when i get my expierians.im new here and im very greatfull that i found this forum with the best persons with knowledge and good will..thats the most importent..i wish you to sleep well ..again lot of thanks to you dear friend have a nice and safe weekend....Alon

 

[ALON 1969]

From my calculations, i figured that you had about 95 grams total weight of gold, copper, and nickel on the fingers. That would take about 400 ml of aqua regia to dissolve the metals - say, 320 ml of HCl and 80 ml of nitric. You added 700 ml of HCl and 370ml of nitric. The extra 380 ml of HCl won't cause any problems, but the extra 290 ml of nitric will cause big problems. As long as this extra nitric is there, the SMB won't drop the gold. So, you somehow must get rid of this nitric before dropping the gold.

There are basically 5 methods of getting rid of excess nitric. You should have studied everything on this post before attempting to process that material. I'll let someone else give you the details. I don't have much experience with these because I can't remember using too much nitric during the last 30 years.
(1) With small amounts of nitric, SMB will decompose and eliminate it. However, a toxic nasty gas, SO2 will be released and, for 290 ml of nitric, it will take a lot of SMB. In this case, I wouldn't recommend this.
(2) Urea will work best on small amounts of nitric. With larger amounts, such as you have, I've always had crystals of urea nitrite form in the solution. These crystals are difficult to work around and there's the possibility of them being explosive under certain conditions.
(3) Sulfamic acid will eliminate the nitric but, for 290 ml, it will take about 1 pound. There are a lot of people here with sulfamic acid experience.
(4) Evaporation. This involves evaporating to nearly a syrup, adding a little HCl, evaporating, adding HCl, evaporating - repeat a couple more times. Then dilute, filter, drop the gold.
(5) This is actually starting over. You add copper metal to the solution until the nitric is used up and the gold has cemented out on the copper remainiing.

When using aqua regia, it is best to cover the material with HCl only and heat it to about 60C. Then, add a small amount of nitric acid - in this case about 15 ml. Allow the reaction to proceed. When the reaction slows considerably or stops, add another increment of nitric. Repeat until an addition of nitric produces no reaction. Don't add anymore nitric. Everything at this point should be dissolved. Using this method, no excess nitric is used and, therefore, the SMB will immediately drop the gold with no problems.

Actually, if I were going to use HCl and nitric on fingers, I would first dissolve all the copper and nickel using only nitric and water, in a 50:50 mix. When all the copper and nickel was dissolved, I would then remove the solution by filtering or decanting, rinse a few times with water, and return all the solids to the beaker. I would then cover the solids with HCl, heat, and go through the nitric additions method outlined above.

"(4) Evaporation. This involves evaporating to nearly a syrup, adding a little HCl, evaporating, adding HCl, evaporating - repeat a couple more times. Then dilute, filter, drop the gold"
#please i want to ask when i will add the HCL to the syrop the solutoin must to be cold or worm\hot?

 

[artart47]

Hi Alon !
I would like to suggest that while your solution is simmering down, use the time to go on the search and study this evaporation. Per-haps one of our members have a video?
You want to be very careful near the end of the evaporation. Gold chloride can evaporate and be lost!
You must be very patient and really watch it constantly. The first time I did this, the solution was just starting to thicken and I think I had the heat too high, I walked away for just a few minutes and all of a sudden, The small beaker was almost completely dry and was smoking! It happened so fast.
I don't know if I lost some gold that went up in the smoke because I was new to this and didn't really know how much gold was in the solution in the beginning.
Really look for all the information you can find about it so you don't make a mistake! Go slow. a little at a time.
Good luck!
Art.

 

[ALON 1969]

Hi Alon !
I would like to suggest that while your solution is simmering down, use the time to go on the search and study this evaporation. Per-haps one of our members have a video?
You want to be very careful near the end of the evaporation. Gold chloride can evaporate and be lost!
You must be very patient and really watch it constantly. The first time I did this, the solution was just starting to thicken and I think I had the heat too high, I walked away for just a few minutes and all of a sudden, The small beaker was almost completely dry and was smoking! It happened so fast.
I don't know if I lost some gold that went up in the smoke because I was new to this and didn't really know how much gold was in the solution in the beginning.
Really look for all the information you can find about it so you don't make a mistake! Go slow. a little at a time.
Good luck!
Art.

hello dear art..thanks for your respond..im doing it exectly like you worhot me..litel by littel..i took sampel of 25 ml from the solution cool it with distield ice water and diluit it x3 mean 75 ml solutoin. i added the S.M.B and it wass very fine..i dropd the gold. ther wass no red fumes and no violent reactoin and i melt a litel ball of gold with a pinch of borax..im reading a lot the forum liberey .im realy thankfull to you and to this great forum..i start with 1200 ml of solutoin and now i got lttel less the 400 ml(in 3 liter beaker) i think when it will be on 200 ml i will add like 100 ml of H.C.L and keep evaporateing until it will be again 200 ml and ill do it again mor 2 times and diluiet x3 with distiled water and then ill drop with S.M.B with out red fumes or agresiv reactoin...lot of thanks to you..ill up date you with my process..have a nice day dear friend...Alon

 

[artart47]

Add HCl 5 or 6ml at a time. keep doing that until you add some and there is no reaction. then stop adding more and start evaporating again.
don't just start with 100ml. You may only need 15 or 20ml. You may only need 30ml. That was how you were supposed add the nitric in the beginning. a little at a time until all the gold is dissolved so you don't get too much nitric. Now! To force the nitric out. HCl a little at a time until adding more doesn't cause a reaction. If you get more than you need, you just have more to evaporate.
In your last post you said " I think that when it is down to 200ml I'll add more HCl and then evaporate it again. No! that is not correct. You have to watch the solution carefully! You might have to go down to 75ml or per-haps 50ml. you won't know until it gets there.
Now, your solution moves around ,thin, like water if you stir it. keep evaporating until it starts to get thick, like syrup (The stuff you put on pan cakes) or like motor oil. If you add HCl before then, It won't get rid of the nitric.
Art.

 

[ALON 1969]

Add HCl 5 or 6ml at a time. keep doing that until you add some and there is no reaction. then stop adding more and start evaporating again.
don't just start with 100ml. You may only need 15 or 20ml. You may only need 30ml. That was how you were supposed add the nitric in the beginning. a little at a time until all the gold is dissolved so you don't get too much nitric. Now! To force the nitric out. HCl a little at a time until adding more doesn't cause a reaction. If you get more than you need, you just have more to evaporate.
In your last post you said " I think that when it is down to 200ml I'll add more HCl and then evaporate it again. No! that is not correct. You have to watch the solution carefully! You might have to go down to 75ml or per-haps 50ml. you won't know until it gets there.
Now, your solution moves around ,thin, like water if you stir it. keep evaporating until it starts to get thick, like syrup (The stuff you put on pan cakes) or like motor oil. If you add HCl before then, It won't get rid of the nitric.
Art.

HEllo dear Art how are you..first i want to thank you! im doing it exectly..i adedd mor foils to the solutoin and it helped a little to "kil" the nitric acid..i tooked (again) 25 ml from the (400 ml) solutoin i cool it with disteild ice water and disteild water x3 times (75 ml) when i adedd the S.M.B ther wass no reactoin (agresive like befor) the S.M.B DROPD the gold and the color of the solution wass clear and clean and on the botom wass like black sand... i wass realy happy that it worked..i tooked this "black gold" and put it to the "big" solutoin and the gold disolve so fast againso now im waiting to the solutoin be like 250-300 ml ( im stil evaporateing) ill cool it filter and drop the gold with the "S.M.B"..please what you recomended to me to do after? clean the"black sand" to be on brown color or melt it like this ? i want a good resoltes and nice bar...some friends told me to refine it again for 99.99 and they told me to be carefull when im melting it with a pinch of borax that the gold can be sthiking to the borax..if it will hapend how ill solve this matter?...lot of thanks dear friend and thanks very much to this ameizing persons forum..Alon

 

[butcher]

Harold's post in the help needed section is what you are looking for,(getting gold pure and shiny) here he explains a washing technique to wash your gold powder.

If there are many base metals I would refine the gold powder a second time to clean it up before the washing procedure.

Do not forget doing the study in the safety section, protecting yourself from dangers, and dealing with wastes.

If you choose to refine the gold again for high purity remember not to make the same mistake of using too much acids.

To dissolve one gram of gold it will take somewhere around 3.8ml of HCl and about 0.95ml of HNO3 (added in small increments) heating towards the end of the reactions...

Before melting or any step for that matter I suggest studying it. make sure the dish or material is what you need to get the job done, you may even wish to test the dish to see it can hold up before you melt gold in it. Learn how to prepare your dish...

 

[ALON 1969]

Harold's post in the help needed section is what you are looking for,(getting gold pure and shiny) here he explains a washing technique to wash your gold powder.

If there are many base metals I would refine the gold powder a second time to clean it up before the washing procedure.

Do not forget doing the study in the safety section, protecting yourself from dangers, and dealing with wastes.

If you choose to refine the gold again for high purity remember not to make the same mistake of using too much acids.

To dissolve one gram of gold it will take somewhere around 3.8ml of HCl and about 0.95ml of HNO3 (added in small increments) heating towards the end of the reactions...

Before melting or any step for that matter I suggest studying it. make sure the dish or material is what you need to get the job done, you may even wish to test the dish to see it can hold up before you melt gold in it. Learn how to prepare your dish...

thank you for this information but i have another problem: after i cool the solutoin with disteild ice water i dilueited x3 times with distild water i test it with smal 50ml i added the S.M.B the gold wass droped and evry thing wass ok on this test but when i adedd the SMB to the 1600 ml solution the solutoin changd the color to browon\black and it stays like this its not clear solutoin up like it wass on the small test!! why? what i have to do? please i need your help!!! i realy dont know what hapend..please help me dear friends

 

[ALON 1969]

There are a couple of way I would deal with this, cover and save the solution in a safe location and study (probably the best way).

You could also dissolve more gold or foils in it, and, or evaporated it down (a waste of acid as dangerous gases), you can do both. Evaporating to drive off water, then the nitric acid with heat (do not boil). When solution is very concentrated add just enough HCl to keep the solution liquid. You do not want to evaporate all of the liquid to salts. With as much sulfuric acid as you used I doubt you will have any problems with this mess, (way too much acid). The HCl addition may make a red cloud when added, an indication you still have free nitric acid. Continue to evaporate bring the solution to concentrated liquid (almost syrup) again, repeat the small HCl addition (just to keep wet), evaporate off that HCl addition, Note if you were dissolving more gold or foils into solution it will be using up the acid as you concentrate the solution...

Test a drop of the solution with stannous chloride SnCl2 (you can make this testing solution yourself with 95 percent tin metal and HCl acid) study it on the forum...

Note if you have too much nitric acid in solution this test will not work, for the test to work it must reduce the gold to gold metal colloids (the purple color of the test), too much nitric acid will keep the gold from making the metal gold that gives the test its purple color. After you eliminate the free nitric acid you should see the purple of Cassius color of the positive test for gold (as long as there is gold dissolved in solution).

After eliminating the free nitric acid. At this point you can recover your gold , sulfamic acid can be used (if needed), but if you follow instruction this far you should have eliminated the free nitric acid. The stannous test is not only a good indication of gold in solution, but it can also be helpful in indications of too much free nitric acid left in solution. Here you can use SMB to precipitate your gold, or a use a clean thick bar of copper to cement the gold...


Put the waste solutions in a plastic bucket and add the bar of copper. This will collect any values you missed, if it makes a black powder save it, that is some of your gold. Separate any black power and save it. With the barren solution, add a sheet of steel or iron, some of this iron will dissolve into solution, and the copper will come out of solution as metal, (save the copper), after no more copper comes out of solution, (saturated with iron), decant the solution, and add a base (or caustic solution) to it, (carefully), sodium hydroxide works well, (but is very reactive so if you use it, add it slowly and carefully so as not to create a foam over or violent reactions, or heating the bucket up too much...), lime, powdered lime stone or some other bases will work, (see dealing with waste in the safety section for details). The goal here is to bring the pH up to around 9 where most of the dangerous metals will form hydroxides, and settle of solution. Let it settle and decant the solution, dry out sludge as you collect them. Then add acid in very small amounts back to the solution, until you get it to a pH 7 neutral, some metal can precipitate again decant the salt water and safely dispose of, it can still kill plants or harm fish, or harm a septic tank... pH paper will work or you can use pH indicator solutions, digital pH meters can be found for reasonable price and are well worth the purchase...

Once you get out of this mess, and get the few dollars of gold back. Put away your dangerous chemicals at this point all your going to do with them is lose your gold and make toxic and deadly messes.and hurt yourself or others. this is not child's play. Go to the safety section and study. Download Hokes book and study. Study the forum...

You do not get gold by mixing acids and metals with no clue of what is happening, or by melting rock with no idea of the dangers, playing chemist with no clue of what can happen, that would just be stupid and dangerous, an accident waiting to happen.

You are wanting to learn a profession, this is not just a read a few things a do it, or something a friend can tell you how it works and you can do it. This profession of precious metal recovery and refining like other professions will take work and time to learn. many things besides chemistry is involved here,as you may already have some idea of chemistry can easily create explosive mixes, dangerous or deadly gases or solution, this is not child's play. do not act like a child trying things you really do not understand the dangers of...
This is not something you are going to learn by asking a million questions, like many professions you will need to learn the basic principles, you will need to understand the dangers. you have to spend time like an apprentice studying. even before practicing what you are studying.
You do not give a small child a tool box and a cutting torch and tell him to have fun fixing your new car, or show him a video and turn him loose on your car with a lit cutting torch. He will have to spend some time learning before he will be able to fix your car, if he is interested in learning and spends time to learn that profession he will make a good mechanic in the future.
My purpose is to help you, some of the way I try to do that is to try to get you to understand some of the dangers. and get you to see that dumping acid on metals is just plain foolish unless you have some idea of what your doing, you are putting yourself and others in extreme danger, a few dollars of gold is not worth your health, or someones life, would you trade your eyesight for couple of grams of gold? if so I bet the world if full of blind men who will be willing to buy your eyeballs, I just bet they will pay much more in gold than what you have in your beakers right now...

Welcome to the forum, if you are serious about learning these professional skills you have found the best place possible. If you are willing to spend the time to learn it. If you are not serious about spending years learning, I suggest you just put up the acids. Maybe just buy and sell your scrap and gold, (where you will also need to study to get good at). There is just too much to this art and skill, it is also just too dangerous to fool around with, if you are not truly serious. or serious enough to educate yourself in the field.

If you are serious the skills can take years to learn, but the education can be more valuable than the metals you collect while learning. Like other professions you can spend lifetimes learning more about this, and will never learn it all. That way we are always adding more value to our education, it remains interesting, and you continue on your quest to learn more, which can help you to add value to that pot of gold.
PLEASE I NEED HELP ITS REALY S.O.S
SOS -----------Stop Overlooking Safety
Hope this helps.

yes it helped thank you. but now i have another problem..the gold did not dropd with the SMB..i dont know what to do