PLEASE I NEED HELP ITS REALY S.O.S

[ALON 1969]

lot of thanks dear friend for your very good respond and that you spend your time to help me and give me lot informatoins im thankfull to you..i ecsept your and other friend like goran to use the evaporate optoin..ill start it now on low\medum heat..i put all the solutoin 1200 ml on 3 liter beaker and left it for evaporateing..ill do exectly what you and goran told me to do..after cupel time that ill add hc acid and ill see that no reactoin any mor ill let it cool filter it with buchner funnel and ill add 2-3 tea spoon of s.m.b to drop the gold..am i corect?? can i cool the solutoin wit ice mad from tap water?..thanks for your respond

Evaporate at low heat.
Dilute three times its current volume.
Add ice made from distilled water.
Drop with SMB. Do not mix, just wait a few minutes. Repeat until the top solution is clear.
Let it settle overnight or until the top liquid is clear.
Remove the liquid, gold should now be at the bottom.
Wash with cold HCL until no color change.
Wash with boiling distilled water three times.
Dry.
Melt with a pinch of borax.

These steps are specific to your current situation only.

*I am assuming your solution is clear already. If there is any precipitate before SMB, add sulfuric acid and re-filter.

" Evaporate at low heat.
Dilute three times its current volume.
Add ice made from distilled water.
Drop with SMB. Do not mix, just wait a few minutes. Repeat until the top solution is clear.
Let it settle overnight or until the top liquid is clear.
Remove the liquid, gold should now be at the bottom "

i did exectly what you told me..but when i added the SMB the solutoin only changd the color to browon\black durty and it stay like this the gold not droped to the botom...why?? ther wass not any reactoin the color after i filter it wass very nice pure yelow and now it stay like this and nothing changed after 90 minutes..when i dud test with 50 ml on smal 250ml beaker the SMB droped the gold but now the big solutoin( 1600ml after diluited) is browon\black durty and dont changed the color...i realy dont know what is it or what hapend...please i need help..thanks for responding me...Alon

 

[ALON 1969]

dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

After you added your smb, the solution changed to black, and the gold has not dropped? Correct?

You may want to try a few things.

Let it sit a day or two, see if it settles out (i had a batch take 7 days to fully settle)

Try gently warming the solution while softly stirring every now and then.

Add more water. Hot water.

Im sure there are other things that could be done, but, on both of the solutions i had this happen to me on, those remedied my problem.

It happens, i believe, from dirty solutions where the gold cannot agglomerate easily.

-topher

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution

Did the foils you add have tin?

You ran the fingers in copper chloride (AP) first to rid them of base metals, right?

Then rinsed them in HCl 3 times right?

Then water?

Were the rinses clean?

Black can be colloidal gold... Like one BIG stannous chloride test thats done on a very concentrated solution.

But, since you said it turned black after you added SMB, that tells me that its more likely very very finely divided dirty gold that just wont settle.

What is your Ph level currently?

 

[ALON 1969]

dear friends maybe my problem is LOW OR HIGH P.H ?? i hope i did not lost the gold ..i added mor fiols means now thars 12-15 grams...please i need help..thank you dear friends for helping me...im realy afraid the i lot all the gold that wass on this solution

Did the foils you add have tin?

You ran the fingers in copper chloride (AP) first to rid them of base metals, right?

Then rinsed them in HCl 3 times right?

Then water?

Were the rinses clean?

Black can be colloidal gold... Like one BIG stannous chloride test thats done on a very concentrated solution.

But, since you said it turned black after you added SMB, that tells me that its more likely very very finely divided dirty gold that just wont settle.

What is your Ph level currently?

hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
. i adedd mor foils to the solutoin to broke the nitric so i have ther lot of gold..any i dea?..thanks dear frind topher

 

[nickvc]

Have you tested your solution with stannous to see if you have any gold left in solution?
If your test shows negative put your solution on your heater and get it hot that should help the powders to settle, I disliked working with very dilute solutions for this very reason they can take ages to settle.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
. i adedd mor foils to the solutoin to broke the nitric so i have ther lot of gold..any i dea?..thanks dear frind topher

When the solution changed color from yellow to brown/gray/black - that - was/is the reaction. Gold getting reduced to metallic form. I dont think you diluted it too much.

I do think you added too much smb though. But, thats an easy fix, and is future ALON's problem. The first problem in need of attention, is to get the gold to settle.

But, i have another question-
Did you add more nitric to dissolve the extra foils you added?
Did they all dissolve? Or did you leave some undissolved and filter them off?(thereby leaving it known that you had exhausted all of your nitric in solution?)

My only ideas (without being right there to see it, test it, etc...) is/are:

Add a little more water. Take the level right up to 2,000mL
Put the beaker on a hot plate -a coffee warmer is perfect- if you only have a flame, or coiled hot plate, you should definitely find some corningware (arcoflame over across the pond) to use as a catch dish [put between burner and beaker] incase of a break)
Let it warm up, while its warming, give it a few stirs with a glass rod. Repeat that every 15 or 30 minutes...or however often youd like. I wouldnt go crazy with the speed of your stir though, as it will just keep lifting the incredibly small gold particles back up to the top.
After a couple houra of gentle heat. Take it off the hotplate. Let it sit for a day or 7, then siphon off the barren solution to your stock pot and wash the gold precipitate at the bottom of the beaker using Harold_v's methodology.

Or, if you have a centrifuge, just put your solution in it and give it a whirl.

I have had the opposite experience compared to nick- when my dirty solutions stayed hanging, it seemed as if it happened both times on dirty solutions i only diluted with a little bit of ice. And after i added more water, it seemed it could settle up quicker. But, i didnt do it in a very scientific manner- i did all at once- dilute, heat, stir, repeat, then just let it sit for a week, once or twice a day doing a very very slow stir just to get the particulate at the bottom to agglomerate in the center of the bucket. I am in no way saying that nick is wrong, everyone has different experiences, and sometimes hands-on experience is the only way to find a resolution for the problem with your solution.

-topher

-side note-
How's your read of Miss Hoke's book coming along ALON?

 

[ALON 1969]

hello dear friend..i mad A.P process..maybe i diluited to much with disteld water ? maybe the P.H is low? becous when i added the S.M.B thehr wass no any reactoin and the solution have a strang color its browon\gray\black....if i diluited with to much distild water what i have to do now? i adedd like a 12-15 spoons of SMB becous its 3 liter beaker with 1700 ml solution..
. i adedd mor foils to the solutoin to broke the nitric so i have ther lot of gold..any i dea?..thanks dear frind topher

When the solution changed color from yellow to brown/gray/black - that - was/is the reaction. Gold getting reduced to metallic form. I dont think you diluted it too much.

I do think you added too much smb though. But, thats an easy fix, and is future ALON's problem. The first problem in need of attention, is to get the gold to settle.

But, i have another question-
Did you add more nitric to dissolve the extra foils you added?
Did they all dissolve? Or did you leave some undissolved and filter them off?(thereby leaving it known that you had exhausted all of your nitric in solution?)

My only ideas (without being right there to see it, test it, etc...) is/are:

Add a little more water. Take the level right up to 2,000mL
Put the beaker on a hot plate -a coffee warmer is perfect- if you only have a flame, or coiled hot plate, you should definitely find some corningware (arcoflame over across the pond) to use as a catch dish [put between burner and beaker] incase of a break)
Let it warm up, while its warming, give it a few stirs with a glass rod. Repeat that every 15 or 30 minutes...or however often youd like. I wouldnt go crazy with the speed of your stir though, as it will just keep lifting the incredibly small gold particles back up to the top.
After a couple houra of gentle heat. Take it off the hotplate. Let it sit for a day or 7, then siphon off the barren solution to your stock pot and wash the gold precipitate at the bottom of the beaker using Harold_v's methodology.

Or, if you have a centrifuge, just put your solution in it and give it a whirl.

I have had the opposite experience compared to nick- when my dirty solutions stayed hanging, it seemed as if it happened both times on dirty solutions i only diluted with a little bit of ice. And after i added more water, it seemed it could settle up quicker. But, i didnt do it in a very scientific manner- i did all at once- dilute, heat, stir, repeat, then just let it sit for a week, once or twice a day doing a very very slow stir just to get the particulate at the bottom to agglomerate in the center of the bucket. I am in no way saying that nick is wrong, everyone has different experiences, and sometimes hands-on experience is the only way to find a resolution for the problem with your solution.

-topher

-side note-
How's your read of Miss Hoke's book coming along ALON?

Heloo dear Topher..now after 5 houers i see the gold droped dowon and the up of the solutoin have a littel black gold powoder..now when i added mor water its 2200 ml and the solutoin come to be clear(lol maby i wass littel bit panick its my first time A.R maden)..SO ARE YOU RECOMENDED ME TO DO THIS PROCESS THAT YOU TOLD ME TO DO? TO HEAT IT and stir or just let it sit for a while and wait(i dont have stannous test.im wait for araived)..and what about the to much SMB? i added like a 350 grams becous its to much water..i hope with your help will be happy end to this never ending story (lol)..lot of thanks dear Topher you helping me lot im so thankfull to you you are vrey nice person with good willing..have a nice day dear friend..Alon

 

[ALON 1969]

sorry but i forgot to ask you how to fix the extra SMB you told me "its esy to fixs"..thanks dear friend

 

[ALON 1969]

Have you tested your solution with stannous to see if you have any gold left in solution?
If your test shows negative put your solution on your heater and get it hot that should help the powders to settle, I disliked working with very dilute solutions for this very reason they can take ages to settle.

hello..no i dont have yet the stannous test..but by the way i put the beaker on sun lite i hope its good..ill be glad to know that...have a nice day

 

[ALON 1969]

hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

sorry but i forgot to ask you how to fix the extra SMB you told me "its esy to fixs"..thanks dear friend

You *MUST* make some stannous. It is incredibly simple, and you can almost certainly find some tin locally. A store near you surely has lead free solder? (tin and silver or copper or...) a pewter cup or bowl or anything would work too. Lead free fishing weights. Tin anything really..

Every refiner needs to be able to test their solutions for values, otherwise you may toss the values right out with the waste.
Stannous Chloride, DMG, schwerters solution, nitric, copperas, a decent spot plate, -all good things to get in your workspace.

Excess SMB can give a false positive on your stannous test, i think I mentioned it earlier. I don't remember if it was this thread though, so here is a good link lazersteve explains it.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12885&view=next


When theres an excess, you can just wash your gold powder a few times in hot water to get rid of the gas.

If there actually smb powder on the bottom, then add some HCl, not a lot, just enough to get it working.

-topher

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon

I just saw this, but if its outside it will be fine. So long as you have it covered up so nature can't put debris in your solution.

Leaves, bugs, sticks, dust. All can be a pain.

 

[g_axelsson]

You should study more and experiment less.

- Too much solution
- No stannous tests
- Way too much chemicals used. 350g SMB when 20g would have been enough!

This is the problem with hand feeding advice, no understanding of what to expect or realizing something isn't as it should be.

Göran

 

[ALON 1969]

hello evry one..i put the beaker with the solutoin on sun lite outsid in a safe place..are it is good for the reacthoin or ill have to get it in door?? thanks for responding and how im dealing with extra SMB...Alon

I just saw this, but if its outside it will be fine. So long as you have it covered up so nature can't put debris in your solution.

Leaves, bugs, sticks, dust. All can be a pain.

hi..yep it is coverd and thars a strong sun now in israel(almost 35degrees).ill wait mor 2 days until i get this stannous test..so i will left it on sun all the day and i get it in at evening corect ? after ill siphone it and i will wash it 3x times with disteild boild water and after with HCL x 3times? thanks dear friend Topher..have a nice day...Alon

 

[ALON 1969]

UPDATE: hello dear friends..now the solution(2500ml) is outside on sun lite and its very hot today..after 2.5 ouers i senn small bubels go up from the botom of the beaker(from the "black sand" ) and its like "boild" ..are it is normal? the solutoin be come very clearly like very nice water color..ill be glad for any tips on this time part at my process..lot of thanks dear friends for your best help and good willing..have a nice day...Alon :?:

 

[ALON 1969]

UPDATE: hello dear friends..now the solution(2500ml) is outside on sun lite and its very hot today..after 2.5 ouers i senn small bubels go up from the botom of the beaker(from the "black sand" ) and its like "boild" ..are it is normal? the solutoin be come very clearly like very nice water color..ill be glad for any tips on this time part at my process..lot of thanks dear friends for your best help and good willing..have a nice day...Alon :?:

i forgot to ask if thers any chans that will be any situatoin of run away or boild solutoin so i could lost the solutoin or part of it? im checking evry 5 minutes the process to look if evry thing is ok... :?:

 

[artart47]

Hi Alon.
Gold is probably in the black powder in the bottom. There may still be some gold dissolved in the clear liquid.
very carefully, pour off or syphon off the liquid and put the powder in a small beaker. Do not throw away anything. The clear liquid will be tested with stannous, that will tell you if all the gold dropped or if the solution has more gold.
Then! put everything away for a while. Look up everything you can find on our forum about washing gold powder. One of our members gave you the post to search for.. how Harold washed his gold.
Art.

 

[ALON 1969]

Hi Alon.
Gold is probably in the black powder in the bottom. There may still be some gold dissolved in the clear liquid.
very carefully, pour off or syphon off the liquid and put the powder in a small beaker. Do not throw away anything. The clear liquid will be tested with stannous, that will tell you if all the gold dropped or if the solution has more gold.
Then! put everything away for a while. Look up everything you can find on our forum about washing gold powder. One of our members gave you the post to search for.. how Harold washed his gold.
Art.

hi Art...thank you..iv seen the solutoin now its very nice browon color (the gold on botom) maybe the color is very nice browon and not black like usely becous i kcooked it 4 days( lol) with break 3 huers at 24 ..i understand that after ill syphon it i need to wash with distield boild water x3 times (how much time need evry one wash?) and after wash with cold (?) HCL x3 times and ill left it dry..am i corect?..lot of thanks to all the friends and members that helped me and helping me and for all thos lernde a very importent lesson from my first post on my first AQUA REGIA process with extra ecess of Nitric Acid and how to deal with this situatoin..i lernd lot and im stil lern and im reading all the time and for sure i did not make it with out you with out all the very nice friends that have a good willing and help one ech other from pure heart and brain...thanks god that he find for me this forum...god bless you Art god bless you all...Alon

 

[jason_recliner]

hi..yep it is coverd and thars a strong sun now in israel(almost 35degrees).ill wait mor 2 days until i get this stannous test..so i will left it on sun all the day and i get it in at evening corect ?

I would leave it outside. Cover it loosely to protect it from insects, but don't bring it into your house if you would like to keep the other things that are in your house.
35°C is a bit warm, but not too serious. It might even help reduce your acid volume. Have a catch pan or suitable tray underneath so that if it does overflow, you will be prepared.