Turbine engine parts
- Thread starter Ascrap
- Start date
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AztekShine
Well-known member
:shock: :shock: :twisted: :shock:
Wow! I gota see it.
Wow! I gota see it.
Ascrap said:
I know NOTHING of what you are trying to do, but I can provide a little help:
You need to "Cool Your Jet's" Really. :lol:
You seem to be in a rush, Your process will not come to you overnight. I promise you this great group of people can help you, with your unique material, if you let them. There are hundreds of years of combined experience here, but your seemingly taunting remarks will not help at all.
Geo
Well-known member
do you process the whole stator at a time, or break it down into smaller pieces? it seems to me that working with such a large piece would pose certain problems in itself.working with just the slats may be easier and less dangerous and would certainly free up storage space until a process can be obtained.
Geo
Well-known member
also,here is a patent that describes exactly what you are asking about.
http://www.patents.com/us-3958984.html
excerpt : EXAMPLE I
A sample tester indicated at 10 in FIGS. 1 and 2 and comprising a bottom plate 12 and a top plate 14 affixed thereto having a sample cavity 16 therein was formed from Type 400 stainless steel. An 85% gold/15% nickel brazing alloy was brazed into the sample cavity 16 and machined so as to completely fill the cavity. The braze was then treated as follows:
http://www.patents.com/us-3958984.html
excerpt : EXAMPLE I
A sample tester indicated at 10 in FIGS. 1 and 2 and comprising a bottom plate 12 and a top plate 14 affixed thereto having a sample cavity 16 therein was formed from Type 400 stainless steel. An 85% gold/15% nickel brazing alloy was brazed into the sample cavity 16 and machined so as to completely fill the cavity. The braze was then treated as follows:
Ascrap
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 11
FIne by me palladium of course you won't help you already seen the pictures & got the information you needed. That was my point from the get go.
I don't need people that just want to get info from me and in return dont give any back. I am sure many guys in here do have experience with this stuff, but there are many that don't and would like to know. Me saying that some guys will use me just to gain knowlage and then not give any back is not an attitude it is a reality that is just a waste of my time, Its called "gold fever". Now if you got anything to say about it other than yes its true you have issues. If you cant sit there and say that there are people in here that would like to take advantage then we just aint on the same page. I am trying to weed out the BS.
Its was easy for me to join this forum, so it is just as easy for someone to come in get what they want and getout.
Myself on the other hand am not like that I would love to learn & share with others. I like the idea of people that want to get smarter & gain knowlage & share in return.
More so in todays world of crooks & just plain crazy people. People with common sense that like to learn & teach are a dieing breed. LOL Funny but true.
I really don't understand why me wanting to talk less and do more learning is wrong but whatever.
Now let stop the back and forth junk as I am already tired of it and I have bearly joined the forum.
Jet are cool. In a rush to learn? Whats wrong with that?
I am 33 Obese & a heavy smoker lol I probly wont make 55.
Something wrong with puting money away for my childrens future?
Just a old fashiond guy here with old school morals, btw I will agree to an extent I have a lil bit of a atitude but then again, have you noticed lately what the
world is coming to & how people have no common sense & love to waste other peoples time among other things? LOL
SO YA I AM IN A RUSH.
Any way, we are cutting the stators into 10 - 12 pieces
I keep saying me but at the end of the day they are my freinds stators I dont get one red penny off these stuff.
Unless I come up with a better program that yields more gold.
Stators usually run a certain avg amount of gold and the last few batches have run as much as 50% lower than avg letting me know that something is being done wrong or someone is stealing or both.
I don't need people that just want to get info from me and in return dont give any back. I am sure many guys in here do have experience with this stuff, but there are many that don't and would like to know. Me saying that some guys will use me just to gain knowlage and then not give any back is not an attitude it is a reality that is just a waste of my time, Its called "gold fever". Now if you got anything to say about it other than yes its true you have issues. If you cant sit there and say that there are people in here that would like to take advantage then we just aint on the same page. I am trying to weed out the BS.
Its was easy for me to join this forum, so it is just as easy for someone to come in get what they want and getout.
Myself on the other hand am not like that I would love to learn & share with others. I like the idea of people that want to get smarter & gain knowlage & share in return.
More so in todays world of crooks & just plain crazy people. People with common sense that like to learn & teach are a dieing breed. LOL Funny but true.
I really don't understand why me wanting to talk less and do more learning is wrong but whatever.
Now let stop the back and forth junk as I am already tired of it and I have bearly joined the forum.
Jet are cool. In a rush to learn? Whats wrong with that?
I am 33 Obese & a heavy smoker lol I probly wont make 55.
Something wrong with puting money away for my childrens future?
Just a old fashiond guy here with old school morals, btw I will agree to an extent I have a lil bit of a atitude but then again, have you noticed lately what the
world is coming to & how people have no common sense & love to waste other peoples time among other things? LOL
SO YA I AM IN A RUSH.
Any way, we are cutting the stators into 10 - 12 pieces
I keep saying me but at the end of the day they are my freinds stators I dont get one red penny off these stuff.
Unless I come up with a better program that yields more gold.
Stators usually run a certain avg amount of gold and the last few batches have run as much as 50% lower than avg letting me know that something is being done wrong or someone is stealing or both.
jimdoc
Well-known member
Ascrap said:
Companies learn ways of saving money all the time with precious metal bearing materials. Maybe they started using less braze, or a different formula of braze. I know from researching my roll (partial roll) of Nioro that there are at least two different formulas. Or like you said, someone could be stealing or losing gold.
Also, maybe you could cut smaller sections off for testing so you would know what to expect from each engine?
Jim
Geo
Well-known member
did you look at the patent in my reply above? it gives the particulars of what you need to know.
Geo
Well-known member
STEP 1 -- CLEANING
This step of the process involves the cleaning of the surface of the braze that is to be stripped as well as the adjacent base metal. Basically, the removal of organic dirt and the like is accomplished by the action of known degreasers, various acid treatments and/or anodic cleaning.
STEP 2 -- RINSING
A water rinse.
STEP 3 -- INITIAL STRIP
In this strip, the primary metal of the braze is attacked by dissolving the same in an aqueous solution of a water-soluble alkali cyanide and a nitro-substituted aromatic compound, optionally in the presence of a compatible wetting agent. The stripping bath is employed at a temperature range of from room temperature to about 185.degree.F, with a temperature of about 160.degree. to 180.degree.F being preferred with the residence time of the braze in the bath being from about 20 to 30 minutes.
As disclosed in U.S. Pat. 2,649,361 and my copending application referenced above, typical alkali cyanides include the ammonium cyanides and those alkali metal and alkali earth cyanides which are ionizable in water to give cyanide ions and which are soluble in water
The nitro-substituted aromatic compounds referred to are typically nitrobenzoic acid and derivatives thereof such as sodium m-nitrobenzoate, nitroaniline, nitrophenol, etc.
STEP 4 --RINSING
A water rinse.
STEP 5 -- ACID STRIP
This acid strip is employed to attack oxides formed during the initial strip and also the various other metals of the braze. In general, this acid strip solution employs up to 50% of nitric acid, a minor amount of hydrochloric acid and a base metal attack inhibitor. The temperature of this stripping bath should be about 100.degree. to 120.degree.F, with the residence time of the braze in the bath being about 30 seconds to about 5 minutes.
STEP 6 -- RINSING
A water rinse.
The method of the present invention is further illustrated by the following Example:
This step of the process involves the cleaning of the surface of the braze that is to be stripped as well as the adjacent base metal. Basically, the removal of organic dirt and the like is accomplished by the action of known degreasers, various acid treatments and/or anodic cleaning.
STEP 2 -- RINSING
A water rinse.
STEP 3 -- INITIAL STRIP
In this strip, the primary metal of the braze is attacked by dissolving the same in an aqueous solution of a water-soluble alkali cyanide and a nitro-substituted aromatic compound, optionally in the presence of a compatible wetting agent. The stripping bath is employed at a temperature range of from room temperature to about 185.degree.F, with a temperature of about 160.degree. to 180.degree.F being preferred with the residence time of the braze in the bath being from about 20 to 30 minutes.
As disclosed in U.S. Pat. 2,649,361 and my copending application referenced above, typical alkali cyanides include the ammonium cyanides and those alkali metal and alkali earth cyanides which are ionizable in water to give cyanide ions and which are soluble in water
The nitro-substituted aromatic compounds referred to are typically nitrobenzoic acid and derivatives thereof such as sodium m-nitrobenzoate, nitroaniline, nitrophenol, etc.
STEP 4 --RINSING
A water rinse.
STEP 5 -- ACID STRIP
This acid strip is employed to attack oxides formed during the initial strip and also the various other metals of the braze. In general, this acid strip solution employs up to 50% of nitric acid, a minor amount of hydrochloric acid and a base metal attack inhibitor. The temperature of this stripping bath should be about 100.degree. to 120.degree.F, with the residence time of the braze in the bath being about 30 seconds to about 5 minutes.
STEP 6 -- RINSING
A water rinse.
The method of the present invention is further illustrated by the following Example:
acpeacemaker
Well-known member
Palladium said:
Half this thread only brings one thought. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
I wish you luck
Geo
Well-known member
Ascrap said:
i have no idea how to proceed with cyanide. the link in the reply above gives more details than the excerpt i post. follow the link.its a U.S. patent for the process you are looking for.there may be others as thats the first one i found at the patent website.
jimdoc
Well-known member
Ascrap said:
Lots of homework never hurt anyone. Well at least I don't think it ever did!
Jim
jack_burton
Well-known member
I'll throw this out there since no one has yet. Please be very careful how you proceed with cyanide. It is the most unforgiving method available to refining as in it will kill you dead if you mishandle it. I don't use it, so I can't offer any advice outside of just use caution and either bring in an expert to show set up and show you or to just plain do it for you.
I think the stator you posted is a silver-nickel braze.
You seem to have the alloy composition down pat.
I would recommend just selling them to ECS refining over in Terrel, TX. I have a connect there I can pass along. They've been doing stators for the past 15-20 years.
Cyanide won't really touch these--have to use acid or an electrolytic process. Given the amount of waste solution you'll certainly create, the most environmentally friendly (and legal) option is to let the people with the proper permits do it. I can think of one other outfit in Texas who just got popped by the EPA for doing it without a permit and proper environmental controls. He also had a history of doing crap like that so I don't know if it'll turn out well for him.
I can care less about the gold stators but I'll do the palladium and silver ones for you.
And you can change the obese and smoker thing. Trust me.
As far as the list of engines containing these things:
• GE CF6
• CFM56
• PW JT8
• PW JT9
• RR RB211
• PW 2000
• IAE V2500
• Soloviev D-30
• Progress D-18T (Lotarev D-18T)
• Aviadvigatel PS-90
• CF6
• JT8D
• JT9D
• RB211
all have varying amounts of precious metals depending on year, who made them, what service they're for, etc.
The stators contain anywhere from 0.25-2 ounces troy per stator in gold in the form of Au 82 Ni 18 braze. They are either 410 stainless or inconel. The gold stators will look gold around the braze point and will have a purple halo of volatilized gold from when they were made.
You seem to have the alloy composition down pat.
I would recommend just selling them to ECS refining over in Terrel, TX. I have a connect there I can pass along. They've been doing stators for the past 15-20 years.
Cyanide won't really touch these--have to use acid or an electrolytic process. Given the amount of waste solution you'll certainly create, the most environmentally friendly (and legal) option is to let the people with the proper permits do it. I can think of one other outfit in Texas who just got popped by the EPA for doing it without a permit and proper environmental controls. He also had a history of doing crap like that so I don't know if it'll turn out well for him.
I can care less about the gold stators but I'll do the palladium and silver ones for you.
And you can change the obese and smoker thing. Trust me.
As far as the list of engines containing these things:
• GE CF6
• CFM56
• PW JT8
• PW JT9
• RR RB211
• PW 2000
• IAE V2500
• Soloviev D-30
• Progress D-18T (Lotarev D-18T)
• Aviadvigatel PS-90
• CF6
• JT8D
• JT9D
• RB211
all have varying amounts of precious metals depending on year, who made them, what service they're for, etc.
The stators contain anywhere from 0.25-2 ounces troy per stator in gold in the form of Au 82 Ni 18 braze. They are either 410 stainless or inconel. The gold stators will look gold around the braze point and will have a purple halo of volatilized gold from when they were made.
Jt3D, RB211, and all those GE engines. There are some 5 oz stators out there, really, Lou.
I still have not heard how you have been trying to process these although you mention aqua regia process.
if most of the part was base metal stainless except the welds why could you not cut the welded portion and process separate from the bulk of materials, I would think if they are stainless an electrolytic process could be one way to approach it, my thinking is using something that would not attack base metals as much as it would the brazing.
High percentage of nitrate electrolyte comes to mind, and possibly something to assist with the gold portion in the solder (? a little salt in the mix?).
Brazing on metals is not like welding (melting two (or three) pieces of metal together, sometime's with a filler metal rod or wire), brazing only sticks to the surface like solder, It seems to me maybe you can remove much of this mechanically from the surface of the metals, grinding sanding?
Ascrap, I can understand you being apprehensive in this business, and may think we are here just to pick your brain to profit from you, but you do not know us, and we do not know you, this forum is much different than that, we are here to share knowledge and help each other as much as we can, do we come here to learn yes we do.
You have had an attitude (slight) but not good for our group, maybe justifiable I do not know, but you have only hurt yourself with it, but you have also insulted a forum member, and wasted other's time, there was no need for that, my time is as important to me as your time is to you. you also say you do not want the back and forth and want to go forward learning from us, It is simple and you said it cut the BS, and an apology would not hurt either, Palladium has been on the forum for many years, he has contributed an awful lot to the forum, and who Knows he may just be the one to help you out, you shared nothing with palladium he could not have dug up on his own.
Also this forum is not like others on the internet, here member’s help each other and gladly do so, and we also have rules of the forum we gladly follow, have you read these yet?
if most of the part was base metal stainless except the welds why could you not cut the welded portion and process separate from the bulk of materials, I would think if they are stainless an electrolytic process could be one way to approach it, my thinking is using something that would not attack base metals as much as it would the brazing.
High percentage of nitrate electrolyte comes to mind, and possibly something to assist with the gold portion in the solder (? a little salt in the mix?).
Brazing on metals is not like welding (melting two (or three) pieces of metal together, sometime's with a filler metal rod or wire), brazing only sticks to the surface like solder, It seems to me maybe you can remove much of this mechanically from the surface of the metals, grinding sanding?
Ascrap, I can understand you being apprehensive in this business, and may think we are here just to pick your brain to profit from you, but you do not know us, and we do not know you, this forum is much different than that, we are here to share knowledge and help each other as much as we can, do we come here to learn yes we do.
You have had an attitude (slight) but not good for our group, maybe justifiable I do not know, but you have only hurt yourself with it, but you have also insulted a forum member, and wasted other's time, there was no need for that, my time is as important to me as your time is to you. you also say you do not want the back and forth and want to go forward learning from us, It is simple and you said it cut the BS, and an apology would not hurt either, Palladium has been on the forum for many years, he has contributed an awful lot to the forum, and who Knows he may just be the one to help you out, you shared nothing with palladium he could not have dug up on his own.
Also this forum is not like others on the internet, here member’s help each other and gladly do so, and we also have rules of the forum we gladly follow, have you read these yet?
Ascrap,
I sent you a PM.
I sent you a PM.
