I got screwed by 2 different refineries

[patnor1011]

I also got screwed by Midwest Refineries.

I sent them several oz. of gold, all tested and weighed insured for $ 10,000.00, and I got back acheck for $ 5,924.12.

My low estimate, what I would have got from an e-bay auction was $ 8,000.00 :shock:

They totaly ripped me off.

I have complained to the BBB & the State Attorney Generals office.

Your first post and so negative? What did you sent them do you have any pictures, weights, breakup of material? Can you upload copy of assay you had done prior to sending material there and their report? It may be interesting reading.

 

[jimdoc]

Ebay prices and reality are far apart. You will have to be clearer than a $8,000 Ebay price estimate, like the karat and weights.

I am not sticking up for Midwest, as I didn't care for them either after my dealings with them. There are many better places to deal with.

Jim

 

[nickvc]

What I love about this forum is it's ability to be totally fair and it's standing on transparency when dealing with others. If the refiners are honest they will do so much business from our members that they don't need to cheat. Be honest and clear and you have plenty of customers queuing up to do business,don't and take your chances on here!

 

[patnor1011]

What I love about this forum is it's ability to be totally fair and it's standing on transparency when dealing with others. If the refiners are honest they will do so much business from our members that they don't need to cheat. Be honest and clear and you have plenty of customers queuing up to do business,don't and take your chances on here!

That is why rant from somebody who joined today, and his first post is accusing somebody of stealing without evidence is not welcome here. Competition must be fair.

 

[Oz]

That is why rant from somebody who joined today, and his first post is accusing somebody of stealing without evidence is not welcome here

You may very well be right Pat, and they thought they had something more valuable than they did.

I personally would like to give the member the chance to reply and hear how they determined the value of their material and exactly what they sent in before I would decide much of anything. I agree that one should not make accusations without showing in great detail why they feel they were wronged. Anything less and their claims are worthless.

 

[Harold_V]

In an attempt to remain unbiased, I can see a valid claim, and I can also see unrealistic expectations. As has been stated, it would be prudent to provide more information so readers can make a fair assessment of the settlement.

I have had personal experiences with many refining entities and can say with certainty that they are not all honest. Precious few are, in fact, and they'll often prey on those that they assume are a one shot customer. The art of shearing the sheep appears to be lost on many of them.

Harold

 

[MiguelRosas]

Forum members -

Yesterday I came across two very interesting threads regarding national refiners, and asked an admin. if it was okay for me to publicly inform you about my company, and the services we offer....

My name is Miguel Rosas, and I am the Regional Sales Manager for Hi-Tech Precious Metals & Refinery. I'm a Cancer, am single, and I have two Boxers. I like to ride motorcycles, sail, SCUBA dive, snowboard and enjoy the company of a glass of wine and good company. Before I was given the opportunity to work for Hi-Tech PMR, I was a Financial Advisor for two of the worlds largest financial firms Smith Barney and JPMorgan. I have no doubt that you are more knowledgable than I am regarding techniques, the chemistry, equipment and process for refining PM's - HOWEVER what I can promise you, is that when it comes to cashing in on your refined product, no other firm has as much integrity.

On behalf of the entire Hi-Tech PMR team, I would like to personally invite you to test our services.

Things could not be more black and white; we would rather make a few percentage points for a lasting relationship - then take advantage of you once, and have a bad reputation.

XRF - (same day settlement) NO ASSAY FEE
-- Using Thermo's ARL ADVANT’XP (http://www.thermoscientific.com/ecomm/servlet/productsdetail?productId=11961753&groupType=PRODUCT&searchType=0&storeId=11152)
Fire Assay - (additional 24 - 48 hours) $45 Assay Fee.
--We utilize a 3rd party assay company (http://www.assayone.com)

We DO NOT "take karats back" meaning - if you're 12K gold assay comes out to be 49.999%, we do not short the assay. We pay you on the actual results.

The shipping is covered by you - however we do offer shipping labels which comes from our account, and then deducted from the settlement. We make ZERO money from the shipping, we're not in the shipping industry.

We offer a 3 day or less Delicate Stone Removal process, and will purchase all Precious stones.

Our most recent rates are as follow:

Gold - (same day settlement)
50+ oz 99% with silver alloy content at 85%
20-49.99oz 99% of gold spot
5-20 oz 98.5% of gold spot
0-5 oz 98% of gold spot

Silver - (same day settlement)
100+ oz 95% of silver spot----(silver purity above 88%)
0-99.99% oz 92% of silver spot----(silver purity above 88%)

Platinum - (same day settlement)
10 oz 95% of plat. spot
0-9.99 92% of plat. spot


If you are ever in the Dallas or Houston area, you are more than welcome to stop by our location and witness the process from start to finish, never taking your eyes off of your lot.

-----------

Look, I have personally made it my goal to take this company to the top, and internationally known. With the familiar understanding that "All refiners screw you, it's just how bad do you want to be screwed" so common place today - it is a battle to convince each prospect / client that we are actually trying to change the way you perceive refineries.

IF you have any questions, please reach out to me.

Miguel A. Rosas
Regional Sales Manager
Hi-Tech Precious Metals & Refinery
http://www.hitechpmr.com
13620 Gamma Rd.
Dallas, Texas 75244
Office: (972) 239-0597
Mobile: (214) 629-3093
Fax: (972) 239-0598

 

[Harold_V]

For the record, I endorsed the post, above.

Harold

 

[rbrooks715]

With the familiar understanding that "All refiners screw you, it's just how bad do you want to be screwed" so common place today - it is a battle to convince each prospect / client that we are actually trying to change the way you perceive refineries.<<

that reality of how bad will you be screwed has been common place for a very long time. while it is true that it is somewhat exaggerated, it is none the less quite true. any time there is a discussion of any type between dealers of precious metal scrap, the first thing that is discussed is; do you have a good processor/refiner. who treats you the best. how light are their returns. or, how badly are you being screwed.

you would not have to engage in any battle to convince a customer. like the folks in mizzery say. show me. lead by example. if you continuously show the best results, customers will beat your door down.

if this was not an ongoing endless problem, there would not be a ongoing endless number of posts concerning this subject.

 

[MiguelRosas]

you would not have to engage in any battle to convince a customer. like the folks in mizzery say. show me. lead by example. if you continuously show the best results, customers will beat your door down.

if this was not an ongoing endless problem, there would not be a ongoing endless number of posts concerning this subject.

Perfectly said!
We have not had to "Battle" to convince customers - and business is extremely well right now, however you must admit that there are thousands of individuals and companies in the PM market - and many have not heard about our company, so I think it benefits everyone to inform those whom remain un-informed. :lol:

 

[rbrooks715]

it is a battle to convince each prospect / client that we are actually trying to change the way you perceive refineries. <<

well, you would have to battle with me to convince me. considering your fee schedule for processing boards.

 

[nickvc]

it is a battle to convince each prospect / client that we are actually trying to change the way you perceive refineries. <<

well, you would have to battle with me to convince me. considering your fee schedule for processing boards.

I'm no expert on e scrap and will defer to most of the forum as to regards to methods to process it and values, however in fairness to the refiners I feel I must point out that upfront charges that may seem high need to be balanced against returns. When I worked for one of the worlds largest refiners their charges for jewellers sweeps were a joke referring more to the 1930s than the 1980s but the retentions more than made up for the small detailed charge that the customer saw. This was even more graphically shown when working for a small refiner years later when a customer split his sweeps in three and awaited his results, he complained bitterly to me about our charges and had me really worried that perhaps we were wrong and we couldn't compete in the market until I eventually asked who had given him the best monetary return! Guess who that was?
If the refiners post charges then perhaps detailed photos and returns for the materials should be shown as a reference and if possible customers comments, the alternative for the sellers is to sell the boards/scrap as is and just sell to the highest bidder and forget charges....it's a gamble on how much you really know about the value of your boards and how honest the refiners are.

 

[4metals]

well, you would have to battle with me to convince me. considering your fee schedule for processing boards.

It is a mistake to assume that every refiner will have the best rates for every material. Very few refiners process boards in house and of those that do, most burn them crush to powder and separate the powder fraction from the metallic fraction and ship those out. Depending on the quantities they generate their rates at their refiners vary.

When i had a refinery I only looked for a specific type of scrap, but everything you could imagine came in. To be fair you have to have rates to reflect everything and those rates have to reflect your costs. If you ship something to a refiner that is not something that they are set up to process in quantity with high efficiency, then you will not get the best rates.

You have to do your homework and ship to where you will get the best price for the type and quantity of boards you have collected.

 

[rbrooks715]

at $5 a pound for processing circuit boards, the only one making money on motherboards and fingerless cards would be the processor.

even finger cards with the fingers would not generate a profit. in fact, paying $3/lb for motherboards (low grade), the cost of shipping to the processor and the $5 processing fee, would only generate a profit for the processor.

unless someone can show a $9/lb return on motherboards (low grade)?

if one is going to make a claim that they are trying to change the way refiners are perceived, then all aspects of that refiner must be included.

 

[MiguelRosas]

if one is going to make a claim that they are trying to change the way refiners are perceived, then all aspects of that refiner must be included.

Brooks -

Let me say that there are specialist that handle e-waste, yet we are very competitive in purchasing boards, however just like you - we are in the business to make money. With the amount of weight associated with boards vs the amount of PM who is suppose to cover the cost of shipping with so much weight?

I would love to say that we will pay for your shipping, process your "Low grade" boards manually and give you the highest possible payout per pound - but that simply would be unprofitable for us as a company. The amount of time, material, and labor associated with e-waste makes the profit margin minimal already.

To post "Rates" of e-waste is extremely difficult- your "Low grade" may be "Med. grade" for someone else. Also, you may say "I have 2,000 lbs of fingers" and we have a tier of $10 per pound over 2,000 pounds, but when we get it, the fingers aren't cut and 60% of the weight is plastic, we would have to not honor the price - leaving a poor taste in your mouth.

Simply put, there are way too many variables associated with E-waste, so we deal with e-waste buyers on an individual / case by case basis. In dealing with "Scrap" precious metals, it is very easy to display rates because scrap processing is (for the most part) straight forward.

If you have E-Waste we will be more than happy to give you a quote.

 

[Anonymous]

at $5 a pound for processing circuit boards, the only one making money on motherboards and fingerless cards would be the processor.

I have to admit that he is correct.I had one refiner (on here I might add) offer to process my material for $1.85 per pound and I got upset.$1.85 per pound to process the material is highway robbery.
Now I do not know what the situation is with the $5/lb fee,but if that is what you are charging to process material,then there is something wrong there. Now Harold is the closest thing I have to a dad on this forum,and as he stated before,he endorses you........so out of respect to him,I won't say anything else other than what I have.Unless I find out that I am wrong about the $5/lb.Then I will gladly offer you an apology.

 

[MiguelRosas]

Now I do not know what the situation is with the $5/lb fee,but if that is what you are charging to process material,then there is something wrong there.

Mic -

I think he was just making a point about other refineries, I could be wrong - but Hi-Tech PMR does NOT charge any fees. (Not for e-waste or any PM refining) Our only cost / "fee" is the difference between spot price, and settlement value..... So unless things change and they didn't inform me, Brooks is not talking about my company.

No apology needed.

 

[Anonymous]

No apology needed

I appreciate the offer,but I have to apologize anyways.I will be the first to come down on someone on the board,therefore,I need to be the first to apologize if I am wrong.So I am sorry.

 

[Fournines]

Almost every refinery will have a charge on the incoming weight to ensure that material processing costs are covered. The larger or more specialized the escrap operation, the cheaper that charge may be.

Customers who have not dealt with this type of work on a commercial basis don't understand why there are charges besides "X" percentage of the gold or silver or other metals.

Lets simplify it. Suppose you process 1000 lbs of "mid grade" boards. As Miguel said, one person's mid grade, may actually be low grade. When all is said and done, let's assume that there is 3 oz of gold (forget about the other metals for a moment). You agree to pay out 90% and no other charges, which means you make 0.3 troy oz of gold, or $480. Maybe you make another $150 for paying out the same % on the AG and PD. $630....right?

Now add up your costs:
Running your incinerator, blender, and ball mill. Acids, waste treatment, labor, gas, electricity, water...I can keep going...

That hypothetical $630 quickly becomes a negative number.

To anyone on here who is actually trying to process large amounts of material yourself; really add up your costs - all of them. I'm certain that it will make anything under $3.00-$4.00 a pound look like a bargain.


There are three factors to any process: Time - Costs - Accuracy. You can only have control over any two of them at once.

 

[rbrooks715]

i have to wonder if it is a reading comprehension problem. i clearly stated motherboards and fingerless cards. and my grading (low grade).

further, i received a quote from

Miguel A. Rosas

Regional Sales Manager

Hi-Tech Precious Metals & Refinery

of $5 per pound for processing circuit boards.

i talked to a processor yesterday who tried this same blarney. told me he only gets 5.5 oz of gold per ton of motherboards and fingerless cards. then offered me $4.50/ lb for my boards. don't think he likes me anymore. my math is better than that.

you all can try to sell this anyway you want.

but, no one is going to pay $4+/lb plus shipping and $5 or even $1.85/ lb processing unless they are making a profit. regardless of how light the recovery assessment is. and some of the processors are really light. consider what is being paid for memory, hard drive boards, etc., on the high end. so, my question was and is, is anyone getting $9+/lb recovery on motherboards and fingerless cards. that is what it would take to cover total costs if you pay $4.35/lb for boards, $5/lb to process and shipping costs. no profit tho.

i have come to the conclusion, after all these years of dealing with escrap, that processing my own material may well be the only answer.

i would love to have one of the refiners or their reps come back to this forum and discuss recovery amounts with us.

having said all of that, i will gladly pay the $5 or the $1.85, providing either of those processors are willing to guarantee a proportionally higher return than i currently get on the same material. i can provide both of you with 2000/lbs of identical material that i have been supplying to my current processor.

almost forgot. while you are figuring costs vs recovery, remember, processors only pay for 5 metals. anyone that doesn't think the remainder of the metals are worthwhile, please send them to me. i will take all the lead, tin, nickel, etc. that you all don't want.