New ram IC chips processing?

[Yggdrasil]

Thanks so much for your apology. I truly didn't mean to be confusing in any way. But I did go back and read all of them again and found how my lack of detailed communication was misleading and I apologize as well. I'm just so frustrated with process. I've been hesitant to perform this process and gold recovery from IC chips because of the extra hassle of incinerate and/or pyrolizing. So I just collected and collected my horde of icy chips and figured I would go with the simplest which I thought was the simplest which were these IC chips with no legs or metal to speak of. Except for the solder balls of course. I've read everything I can. And thought I had this in hand. But alas I do not and all this tedious extra steps are frustrating enough let alone drying it and doing it all over again! ( In which I do it right this time, or at least thorough!)

So now as it stands. I have my material drying and awaiting pyrolyzation. Any advice on what to do from this point on? I showed the container I plan to use for pyrolyzation. So I guess until then nothing needs to be done?

That was the reason why I asked if you have read the threads that was recommended.
You have at least been skipping some important threads from your own research.
Pyrolizing is the first thing you do before any incineration so the volatile gases can be burnt off.
And you will find drawings of pyrolizing vessels. The simplest is just a tin can with some holes in the upper part.
For incineration an open wide container is best so it has good access to air and stirring. Frying pan may be used.
So now you will incinerate the powder in a wide open container.

 

[Rreyes097]

So I'm not sure if I asked this question already but will this work for paralyzation I tried before but I never really worked because I got so much material. But I'm not sure what else I have that'll work without starting a fire in the fireplace.

 

[Yggdrasil]

So I'm not sure if I asked this question already but will this work for paralyzation I tried before but I never really worked because I got so much material. But I'm not sure what else I have that'll work without starting a fire in the fireplace.

I do not think this one is a good solution.
Search the forum for pyrolizing, there are good simple devices shown there.
Closed vessels with exit holes into the flames heating it.
Or if you use a electrically heated system you need a capture system.

 

[Rreyes097]

Yeah I figured it wouldn't work well. So decided to go with this. I built this a long time ago. But never used it for what I intended to. I got the idea from a video on YouTube the plaster inside it's from plaster of Paris so it can be heated up but only a couple times. I use wood pellets in there hopefully trying to get a coals going. But it's difficult. I got air coming thru on the bottom side with a fish tank air pump pushing in air. Any tips? Maybe something stronger then the air pump?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Vacuum cleaner in reverse will be better.
And you still need a vessel for the chips.

 

[BlackLabel]

This pump is supposed to make some bubbles in a fish tank.

The pot is too small, you just can process a good handful of material in it each run.

Scale it up:
An old gas tank / gas bottle (propane/butane, 10-20 liters volume, steel) as furnace.

Even if it's emty (no pressure), it still holds one time of it's volume of gas!
Don't cut it with something like an angle grinder!!!
Screw off the valve an fill the gas tank with water. This will push out the remaining gas.

This furnace needs two openings:
One on top for loading and one smaller on the side a few inches above the bottom for you fan or burner.

You can feed it with charcoal and blow it with a heat gun or you can use a gas torch/burner. On the long run, the torch will be cheaper.

For the pyrolysis, you could use a cooking pot with a lid (about one liter, full steel, no plastic handles) from garage sale.

Put your stuff into the pot, put the pot into the gas bottle and fire!

For the incineration, it could be enough to open the pot. Maybe it needs more air (oxygen).

 

[Rreyes097]

This pump is supposed to make some bubbles in a fish tank.

The pot is too small, you just can process a good handful of material in it each run.

Scale it up:
An old gas tank / gas bottle (propane/butane, 10-20 liters volume, steel) as furnace.

Even if it's emty (no pressure), it still holds one time of it's volume of gas!
Don't cut it with something like an angle grinder!!!
Screw off the valve an fill the gas tank with water. This will push out the remaining gas.

This furnace needs two openings:
One on top for loading and one smaller on the side a few inches above the bottom for you fan or burner.

You can feed it with charcoal and blow it with a heat gun or you can use a gas torch/burner. On the long run, the torch will be cheaper.

For the pyrolysis, you could use a cooking pot with a lid (about one liter, full steel, no plastic handles) from garage sale.

Put your stuff into the pot, put the pot into the gas bottle and fire!

For the incineration, it could be enough to open the pot. Maybe it needs more air (oxygen).

It does have a hole on the side. That's why there is a copper pipe there. But I removed the copper pipe and went with the heat gun which worked well. But only really heated up one side and I couldn't get a uniform coal all around it going it was just one side really hot. I tried a little on the electric furnace and I'm wondering what you guys think. The picture on the right is the crucible that I had filled with material and put in the impromptu furnace. But I couldn't get it going hot enough. So that material is after a half hour in or in the heat. And like I said, I had air blowing in the side via heat gun. So I'm not sure what to do other then build a better unit to pyrolyze. Such as the

 

[Rreyes097]

I do not think this one is a good solution.
Search the forum for pyrolizing, there are good simple devices shown there.
Closed vessels with exit holes into the flames heating it.
Or if you use a electrically heated system you need a capture system.

What is a capture system?

 

[BlackLabel]

What is a capture system?

The toxic fumes that coming out of the plastic must be burnt real hot in order to break them down into non toxic ("normal") smoke. There's no flame in an electric furnace, so the fumes will not get burned and have to be captured/condensed.

 

[Rreyes097]

Well I persisted with the homemade furnace and I made some modifications and I think I got it pretty well pyrolyzed. I got em nice and red for a long time. It IMO looks pretty good. But please let me know what everyone else thinks. Also in the picture the sieve I plan to use and had before. Is that a good mesh size? Because I have no idea what size it is. So do you guys think it needs more pyrolyzing?

 

[Rreyes097]

I was able to pass 98% of that material through that strainer so does that mean it's grounded fine enough or maybe the mesh has too big of holes? So looks like it's rinsing time? Rinse with water to rinse off ash correct? And during those said rinses am I gold panning? Or after it's rinsed? I don't think after makes sense. But I'm all ears and ready to learn and finally get this process down and learned into my bag of skills!

 

[Yggdrasil]

Well I persisted with the homemade furnace and I made some modifications and I think I got it pretty well pyrolyzed. I got em nice and red for a long time. It IMO looks pretty good. But please let me know what everyone else thinks. Also in the picture the sieve I plan to use and had before. Is that a good mesh size? Because I have no idea what size it is. So do you guys think it needs more pyrolyzing?

What you are describing now is incineration, this powder of yours has been burned/heated before? Right?

 

[Rreyes097]

Now I'm confused. I thought pyrolyzation was when it's in heat but no direct flame on it? I used a crucible with a lid. And yes it has been torched. But I didn't know at that time that I was supposed to not use flame on it? But are you saying I did it wrong?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Now I'm confused. I thought pyrolyzation was when it's in heat but no direct flame on it? I used a crucible with a lid. And yes it has been torched. But I didn't know at that time that I was supposed to not use flame on it? But are you saying I did it wrong?

Look at pyrolizing in Wikipedia.
It is heating something in the absence of oxygen. This way the volatile/combustible gases and liquids are evaporated off until no other compounds than carbon is left from what ever organics was there.
The off gases are usually fed back into the fire heating the pyrolizing chamber and as such achieves two things.
The off gases are burnt off in high temperature and broken down to normal burn gases like CO2 and similar.
And it saves a bit on the fuel used to heat it up.
When no more combustible material comes from the pyrolzing chamber it is done.
Then the mechanic processing may commence if needed.
Anyway, before any leaching can be done it has to be incinerated, which in many cases are the same as pyrolizing but with access to oxygen so all the remaining carbon can be converted to CO2.

 

[BlackLabel]

Hi Rreyes097,

Q: When is the pyrolysis done completely?
A: If no more combustible fumes coming out of the vessel.

Q: When is the incineration done completely?
A: If your material (ICs?) became light grey (nearly white) outside AND inside.

It all depends on heat, time, type of material and amount of material.
Find it out for your own:
Compare two different ICs. One flat and one of the old style.
The old, thick IC will take much longer for the full incineration. Cracking them after pyrolysis and/or while incineration will speed things up.

 

[Rreyes097]

I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed. I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?

 

[BlackLabel]

Normally, the pyrolysis is the easy part.
If it's done correctly and if you proceed with the incineration, the ICs will glow like charcoal in a barbecue.
If the ICs are not fully pyrolysed, you will see funky flames dancing above the material, smoke and you will strongly smell burning plastic.

Incineration is the "harder" part because the pyrolysed material does not burn very well.
It's like the comparison between hard coal and charcoal. Incomplete incinerated ICs will show a black core under their surface.
Bringing air in between the ICs and move them while roasting will help.

——

To sculpt a lion out of a block of stone is easy. Just chisel all non lion-looking parts off.

Pyrolysis and incineration is much easier. Try this first.

Edited for spelling

 

[Yggdrasil]

I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed. I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?

That is incineration with low air.
Did you have bad smell and smoke coming out of the fire?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I don't understand how it's not pyrolyzed. I put it in a crucible and placed it in the fire with a lid on the crucible. The air I pumped into it was for the coals to increase temperature. What was I supposed to do? Please know that I have read every single word many times over in this thread. But now I'm not just confused but now I'm frustrated. Are u saying I now need to put flame directly on material?

I want you to do two things please.
Based on the information given in this thread explain.
What is pyrolizing?
Next
What is incinerating?

Hint, it has nothing with flames to do.

 

[Rreyes097]

A very simplified explanation:

Plastic molecules consist mainly of hydrogen and carbon.
During pyrolysis (strong heating without oxygen supply - covered vessel), the molecules break apart. The hydrogen vaporizes and burns as soon as it leaves the container.
The carbon remains.
In the next step, the carbon is burned with the supply of air (oxygen) - open vessel.
This step is called incineration.

If the carbon was not burned completely and you dissolve the metals with acids, some of the metal atoms (especially the gold) will get trapped in the carbon and will be difficult to free again.

This is what I was told it was. But I guess I interpreted its meaning. I thought I pyrolyzation was burning something without direct flame, such as a can with a few holes in a pile of coals? and incineration was basically torching it. What do I have wrong?